Author Topic: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation  (Read 8531 times)

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Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« on: 04:57:41 PM 11/16/13 »
Mr. CP expressed an interest in making this public, so I'm going to go ahead and do it to make sure everything is included correctly. (If you want a job done right, etc.)

Conversation begins on Facebook...



Christopher Howard Wolf

Ahoy,
 
Slimebeast here! I was contacted today by someone who wanted my permission to use & make money from my stories. I declined.
 
His response, as you might already have gathered, was "Mr. CreepyPasta does it!"
 
I'm no YouTube expert, so I figured I'd jot down a message and try to figure everything out. Do you make a profit from my stories, or are the ads more of a Google/YouTube thing?
 

C.W.



No response for about 48 hours.



Christopher Howard Wolf

Ahoy,
 
Would you be willing to remove ads from my stories? Thanks.

C.W.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

hey Christopher. I'm so sorry I havent seen your messages till now but I actualy dont' have the ability to remove the ads alone. Youtube forces monitizations on all the videos I do now wether I like them to or not. If you like I can remove the videos entirely however. I dont want to do anything to offend you. I honestly really appreciate your writing and your talent. Let me know what action you prefer I take in this situation



Mr. Creepy Pasta

Oh Also to answer your question about the way the advertising works, the money that's taken form ads goes to Google. The way that we get paid for our videos is done by total hit counts that go into total views and we get a cut form the amount that Broadband TV, my partnership company, is given from Google by gathering the demograph advertisers. so Yes I do get an amount for the videos. another reason I'm perfectly understanding if that's uncomfortable and you'd like for them to be removed from the channel



Christopher Howard Wolf

Hi,
 
That's unfortunate. As I was told, the videos are marked for advertising by the uploader signifying they're creator of the work? Could be bad info.
 
If the ads can't be removed at all, I guess they'd have to come down unless I can be paid for my work. Seeing as how that's how things would normally work, etc.
 

Thanks for understanding!
 C.W.




Mr. Creepy Pasta

That's not entirely incorrect info. when you're a personal channel operating through googleadsense you do have the option to change the monitization as you see fit but after you've become partnered with a larger company you lose that option.
 And if we could negotiate a price for a one time payment for the license use of the story I might be able to do that. It does all depend on what you asking price for the licence would be. The payments we receive per video is actually a bit more abysmal that you may have been lead to believe. heh but I would hate to lose the work on these audio versions of the story. Your writing is fantastic



Mr. Creepy Pasta

I can tell you that I've ran some number with the video counts. out of the 5 videos that I have uploaded and 912000 hits I've made roughtly $1300 for google. From that BraodbandTV pulls 638$ and from that I make $510 which is around $102 per story give or take change and a dollar or two. So you have an idea of what kind of money I have to use. But like I said. The stories have been removed from the public for now, but I would like to see if there's a way we can negotiate a price so I can bring them back



Christopher Howard Wolf

Well, it seems pretty awful that a company has made over $600 on my work, which has brought me $0. I'll have to think this over.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

Fair enough. For now the videos remain down unless we can reach an agreement otherwise.

Like I said it was never my intention to offend or take anything from you that you didn't want. In all other cases authors for the stories have had a large spike in popularity and additional work because of the publicity from these videos.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

Also, and this it to make sure that no more of these issues resurface, You may want to try to contact SomeOrdinaryGamer as well if he does not have permission for his videos yet, his fan base is much larger than mine and he's contracted for a higher amount than I am. Also alot of these quoted stories are coming form the creepypasta.wikia which the copyright that you carry are not expressed on the pages. I believe there is a way you can mark the page from the wikia that it's under licence which takes it off market fro youtubers in the future.



Christopher Howard Wolf

Yeah, the traffic is interesting, but to be honest I went from maybe 800 hits a day to 1000 something during the Whimsywood post only. Then it immediately went back down to normal afterward. There has been no additional work offered, mentioned, etc.
 
I have contacted other folks, but no one else has replied.
 
I don't post my stories in Wikia and am not held by any standards of websites on which others post my material. Just FYI, etc.
 


Mr. Creepy Pasta

that makes sense. In that case it might be good to contact them too. there is a category there dedicated to your work. http://­creepypasta.wikia.com­/wiki/­Category:Slimebeast all of which is displayed on the public domain site. It sends a message to alot of us which is going to cause this misunderstanding. Like I said I dont want this to cause a problem. If you're willing, and take your time with the decision, I'd like to pay you via paypal for a licence use for story all of which still retain the information as usual with a link back to your site and proper credit given back to you. I'd never want to claim your writing as my own.



Christopher Howard Wolf

Where exactly does Wikia say that all of its content is public domain?



Mr. Creepy Pasta

That's a good point. I should say that it was a widely accepted norm that the wikia is free domain. the site itself displays Content is available under CC-BY-SA.
 Wikis Using the CC-BY-SA license
 To grow the commons of free knowledge and free culture, all users editing or otherwise contributing to wikis that use the CC BY-SA license agree to grant broad permissions to the general public to re-distribute and re-use their contributions freely for any purpose, including commercial use, in accordance with the CC BY-SA license. Such use is allowed where attribution is given and the same freedom to re-use and re-distribute applies to any derivative works of the contributions.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

but there are exceptions. Some articles display a specific licence that differentiates it form the rest of the site. Which may work better for your works so we dont make the mistake that we would be able to use your work. Again I really don't mean to be offensive or anything I'm just delivering the information and offering a suggestion.



Christopher Howard Wolf

I asked the Wiki folks and was forwarded this: http://­creepypasta.wikia.com­/wiki/­Creepypasta_Wiki:Site­_Rules



Christopher Howard Wolf

Since I didn't post my work in wikia, it's not subject to the CC-By-SA anyway. However, Individual wiki rules trump that, and the CreepyPasta wiki has always had OC as property of its creator.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

I see. Thank you for the information. I'll keep that in mind for the future, but again that may be something that, like me, did not know about and have recognize the CC-BY-SA rules before the rules on the site. Again it's not in defense for myself but instead a suggestion to avoid issues in the future with other youtubers. The videos on my end have been removed and I'm willing to pay for licensing for the stories use based on the price that you require. I"m sorry about all the issues this is causing.



At this point, Mr. CreepyPasta posts a public blog entry asking all of his fans to send me messages telling me to let him put the videos back up. This is the first time any of this discussion is made public, and it is done without warning.

Here's the blog entry...

Quote
Slimebeast stories

themrcreepypasta:

The Slimebeast creepy pasta videos are in fact taken down for the moment. It’s not your computer and you’re not crazy. Abandoned by Disney and the rest are currently being renegotiated with the author to make sure I have the proper licencing to be able to use the stories for the youtube videos. Hopefully they will return in a few days

Additionally, as with any situation, if you want to see a faster resolve to this, message Slimebeast and let him know how much the narrations meant to you in addition to his fantastic writing talent. He’ll be more willing to licence it out if he realizes how much attention his other work gets through the publicity of the narrations.

[PICTURE OF GIRAFFES FIGHTING HERE]

Bonus: Mr. CP guiding people on how to contact me for him.



Christopher Howard Wolf

I was trying to be really careful and friendly about this, but asking people to message me and yanking down videos to pressure me into the response you want is really saddening.
 
I was thinking $100 per story since they'd earn revenue forever for you and the compay, then I thought maybe that was a bit unfair since you only make half and the company probably can't be bargained with.
 
Now, I think it's $100 per for sure.
 
If not, keep the videos down.
 
It's a shame, but I'm not responsible for this from using my stories without asking/telling me all the way up to publically calling me out.
 
Your calls then, your call now.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

That makes sense Christopher and I apologize if it seemed too faroward. The intention was to show how many fans you and I both share because of the videos. but $100 per video seems reasonable. I can have the money for at least a few of the stories for you even-though I dont think I afford all of them. I can probably pay you for 3 of the stories and leave the other two videos down. If that can work for you, I can transfer the money to you via paypal tomorow.



Christopher Howard Wolf

Just a reminder, if you want to run the videos ad-free you can of course post any work of mine you want to. Think of it maybe as free samples to get people in the door and watch more? I dunno.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

Otherwise I apologize again. Nothing that I said was intended or worded to deface you as a writer or a person and merely informed fans that we were talking about possibly purchasing a license for the story use, that I was hopeful that we could have this resolved int he next few days and if they wanted to be involve din the process to inform you that they wanted them back as well. It was never an intention of calling you out or pressuring you. It was all done with the thought in mind that you could see that our fans do in fact overlap and there is a gain on fans on your end because of the video input on my end. Like I've mentioned before everything I've done was never to the intention of offending or defacing you or your work. I've been trying to be as friendly and professional as possible in this situation as well. There's never been a situation where there's been a problem with this in the past so I'm working with you in the best of the way that I can or can afford to do so.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

I appreciate that offer as well Christopher as a sort of free sample. Unfortunately I really don't have that ability anymore. My monitization isn't decided by me anymore. Honestly that would be a more desirable option for me as well if it was a possibility



Christopher Howard Wolf

Okey-doke, well my PayPal address is chwolf@gmail.com - feel free to put the videos up and transfer later, or whatever suits you. It's more of a "don't feel like you have to wait" than a "put mah stories back so I gets more sweet hits".



Mr. Creepy Pasta

I understand and thank you for the permission to do so Christopher. I will transfer the money to you tomorrow as soon as I have it available and hopefully in the future I will be able to pay you for the other two stories if you're still open to the idea.



Note that the above is a written agreement to transfer funds.



Mr. Creepy Pasta

Christopher before I do prepare the money or put the videos back out, I'm sending you an email with this conversation and a typed up version of what we've agreed to. If you could read that, make sure that it's both what we agree to and reply with your approval for us to both keep for our records I would appreciate that and we'll be all set. Does that sound ok?



Next message arrives by email.



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>   Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:06 PM 
To: chwolf@gmail.com, chris@slimebeast.com 

At this time Christopher Howard Wolf (Identified as Slimebeast) and [REDACTED] (Identified as MrCreepyPasta) agree on the use of three stories written and posted to slimebeast.com at the price of $100.00USD per story to chwolf@gmail.com for monitized use on the youtube channel MrCreepyPasta (URL:www.youtube.com/user/mrcreepypasta) as described in the attached conversation between the two parties.


Other uses for the aforementioned stories are prohibited unless the monotization options for the user are deactivated..


If you have any other changes or additions to add to this email or the attached document, Christopher, please feel free otherwise just reply with an I agree, please.
 


Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:28 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Non-exclusive License of stories to be read on YouTube, yes.
 


Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>   Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:31 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

At this time Christopher Howard Wolf (Identified as Slimebeast) and [REDACTED] (Identified as MrCreepyPasta) agree on the a nonexclusive licence use of three stories written and posted to slimebeast.com at the price of $100.00USD per story to chwolf@gmail.com for  monetized use on the youtube channel MrCreepyPasta (URL:www.youtube.com/user/mrcreepypasta) as described in the attached conversation between the two parties.


Other uses for the aforementioned stories are prohibited unless the monotization options for the user are deactivated..


 please feel free to make anymore changes otherwise just reply with an I agree, please and I'll get everything ready so I can transfer the money when it arrives tomorrow.
 


Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>   Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:35 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

At this time Christopher Howard Wolf (Identified as Slimebeast) and [REDACTED] (Identified as MrCreepyPasta) agree on the nonexclusive licenced use of three stories written and posted to slimebeast.com at the price of $100.00USD per story to chwolf@gmail.com for  monetized use on the youtube channel MrCreepyPasta (URL:www.youtube.com/user/mrcreepypasta) as described in the attached conversation between the two parties.


Other uses for the aforementioned stories are prohibited unless the monotization options for the user are deactivated..


 please feel free to make anymore changes otherwise just reply with an I agree, please and I'll get everything ready so I can transfer the money when it arrives tomorrow.


Addition: Just noticed that typo. Fixing that up so there's no confusion.
 


And then Mr. CP talks to someone who tells him not to do it.



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:50 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

And one more thing Christopher, did you have the copyright forms or information for the stories in question so I can have them for my records as well? I just want to be sure that I have everything covered for my files before I start transferring a large sum of money, of course.
The ones I had were:
Abandoned by Disney
Zero Room
Lost Episode
Funnymouth
and Whimsywood
 


Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:16 AM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Hi,

As per copyright law, the moment I created the work and posted it, it
was covered by copyright. Same thing as when someone posts a drawing
of their idea to DeviantArt, etc.

I agree to the edited statement, unless of course it's no-go without
registered copyright paperwork/forms which nobody who does creative
work would realistically have like that.


C.W.
 


Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:26 AM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

Alright Christopher.


Let me go over things with my legal council first but if everything's good I will let you know tomorrow. If they say everything should check out ok then we will both be in agreement and I can send you the money.
Thanks for your patience on this.



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:32 AM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Sounds good. Hopefully I won't need legal council! :)



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

My legal council is telling me that I can not pay you without the proper copyright information. I agree that it's morally incorrect for me to be using your work so they will be removed unless you say otherwise, but my legal council has informed me that the work needs a filed copyright with the United States Copyright office for the act to deemed as illegal in court. Otherwise the audio adaption with proper citation is within the law.


That being said, my company has allowed the release on the lock of Abandoned by Disney, Whimsywood, Room Zero and Funnymouth after talking with them over the past few days. I'm still discussing the others but they will remain locked and removed. I can remove advertising that goes towards myself and my company for those videos. Would that be still acceptable if they're reuploaded under those terms? If not, I understand and the videos will remain down.



Interesting Note: They can remove ads on all but one of my stories? How odd. Why do I have to allow them to leave one with ads? It makes no sense...



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:43 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Hi,

Please remove the videos permanently. I'll be seeking a lawyer and
contacting BroadcastTV.



At this point I looked up a working, professional entertainment lawyer friend of mine to see what he thought.



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:45 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

Alright Christopher. The videos will remain removed as they were when you first asked.



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:46 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

I'll also be talking with the creators of as many stories on these
channels as I can manage.

Class action, perhaps.

Sometimes it's good to do the right thing.
 


How many authors out there has Mr. CP been making his living off of? Would he tell all of them that they have no rights to their work and might as well go F themselves?



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:50 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

As I have said every time Christopher I've been trying to deal with this as I can. I've gone through as many channels as I have to accommodate you and spoken with my legal council to ensure that everything that was going through was proper. In addition I wanted to be sure that I could still do what was morally right for you as well and do as you asked by removing videos and not ignoring you when you contacted me to do so. I've remained as professional and friendly as I can with these issues both with you and publicly. I'm very sorry that things have gone the direction that they have. Like always I'm willing to co-operate with you how I can to resolve this, but I have to do so within the advisement of my legal counsel. 



Remaining professional apparently includes publically asking his fans to mail-bomb me... as well as repeatedly ignoring the fact the CreepyPasta Wiki is not a free grab bag - something he's still repeating currently.



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:03 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

I don't really need to hear about morality when we're talking about
"legal council" deciding the rights of a creator.

Our 'negotiation' is over.



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:06 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

Alright Christopher. Again I apologize that things turned out how they did. 



Thanks, enjoy the cash made on my work!



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:23 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

I'll need the contact info (email?) of your legal fellow(s) unless you
want to make me look it up, etc.



Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:07 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

My legal counsel has been [SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE CONNECTED WITH THIS PUBLICALLY]@hotmail.com



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:27 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Thanks.

In the interest of keeping you in the loop, at least at this point,
I'll probably send of just a quick notice, then forward it to a friend
of mine who handles entertainment law.



Before I can contact the person, they contact me first...



Danielle [REDACTED] <[DERP]@hotmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:17 PM 
To: "chwolf@gmail.com" <chwolf@gmail.com

Hi Mr. Wolf, my name is Danielle. I'm a friend and legal adviser of [XXX], or as you know him "MCP". It's come to my understanding that you two are having a bit of an issue. I have been informed that you are considering taking legal action against him, is that correct? May I bring it to your attention that if you do decide to pursue this, it would have to be in a small claims court as none of your pieces are published and valued at over $1,000.
However, this seems highly illogical, as the processing fees would far outweigh anything that you could hope to gain- and you cannot "win" back your money in these sort of cases, but you can, however, prevent further revenue from being made- which it is my understanding that such a thing has already been done.


Firstly, let me start of with explaining to you that under the site rules of the creepypasta wiki- all content is free to be adapted so long as the author of the original piece is cited and sourced- which MCP has done with every video he has created. Let me also being it to your attention that there is no "disclaimer" of sorts on your website [http://slimebeast.tumblr.com/]. This would leave all of your pieces open and free for the public to use, so long as once again, it was properly sourced.


Let me also draw your attention to a couple things on the wiki page:
Firstly: All content on this site is licensed under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise stated. 
       This means it is within MCP's legal rights to:
"3. License Grant. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright) license to exercise the rights in the Work as stated below:

to reproduce the Work, to incorporate the Work into one or more Collective Works, and to reproduce the Work as incorporated in the Collective Works;"
Let me also draw your attention to the disclaimer:
"The admin, editors, and any members associated with this site are not and will never be responsible or liable for any loss of data or stories that happen on this site for any reason or in any manner they may occur. All content is licensed under Creative Commons CC-BY-SA"




Now, let me give an example..
If a youtuber is to read a book on youtube- even if he or she is to make money off of it- they are allowed to do so under the rights of creativity. They are not passing it off as their own- but rather just showing their own "adaptation" of it. It's the same thing with song covers and such. This is because of the CC-BY-SA rules. Now, this is void if the author is "selling" the story or recording without getting proper rights to the novel.. however because it is through ad revenue for the author and he is not claiming it to be his- they are still within their confines.


If you would like to change the fact you are not making any money, may I suggest protecting your site with a subscription based fee?


It is in your best interest to handle this with him and myself instead of involving courts, as the fees to bring him to court would far outweigh your asking price of $300- especially on something that is not copyrighted and assumed to belong to only you.


Let me also say that unless you can prove that you did indeed write those stories and show me a timestamp on them that directly prohibits the use of creative adaptation or a legal document that copyrights that work as your own, we will no longer be in contact.


I understand that these are your stories- and in the future would recommend that you put a disclaimer on your website that way people who are interested in reading your stories can enter a contract with you.


If you have any further questions feel free to write a response. Otherwise I wish you the best of luck and would be happy to help you protect your writing in the future.


Regards.



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:50 PM 
To: Danielle [REDACTED] <[KAZAAM]@hotmail.com> 

Hi Danielle,

First, I'll start off my mentioning that a lot of information you're
operating from is incorrect.

I don't intend this to be confrontational. Rather, I want to get out
of the way my main goal in answering your email - to explain several
inaccuracies.

So here we begin...

1.) This is not "a bit of an issue" and rather could be succinctly
labelled infringement on the part of your client and BroadcastTV.

2.) Any legal action I would take would be most likely against
BroadcastTV, though MCP would most likely be involved in that as
well. Corporations and citizens alike have no right to illegally
profit off of the property of others, etc.

3.) You do not need to inform me of anything relating to small claims
court, as there is currently no legal action being taken at this
moment. What has been used is a body of work valued at over $1,000 in
ad revenue by your client in writing.

4.) Fees are rarely an issue when pursuing moral principals. Also,
there would be a possibility of damages and other such penalties as
the court would see fit.

5.) Thank you for calling at least part of the revenue "my" money in
writing, despite the fact it followed a notice I can't "win" it back
from your client or BroadcastTV.

6.) Let me explain to you that I did not post any of my work on the
CreepyPasta Wiki. Therefore I am not beholden to anything written on
it.

6a.) Let me further explain that the CreepyPasta wiki has a "Site
Rules" page that goes against what you claim. Wikia site rules
specific to hosted wikis legally trump the site-wide placeholder
notice.

6b.) Due to the two reasons above, my property being shared on the
third-party Wiki site by a stranger to me is not a factor in your
favor. There are many wikis on Wikia for corporate television shows,
movies, and more. It should be clear that those properties are not
yours to do with as you see fit.

7.) My website is not Slimebeast.Tumblr.com - That is a blog hosting
site. As such, disclaimers are not needed there.

7a.) I do not post my stories on the Tumblr site. (I did once, just to
see how it worked, but it is not of consiquence in this matter.)

7b.) Posting on Tumblr without a disclaimer does not make creative
work available for your use. If someone posted their painting on
Tumblr, would you be free to sell prints? No.

7c.) My website is http://Slimebeast.com and it carries a clear claim
of copyright and a disclaimer. This is also where I archive my
stories.

7d.) For the reasons stated above, you cannoy legally claim usage by
citing that I have a Tumblr blog.

8.) You are incorrect when you state that a YouTube user can read a
book on YouTube and profit from it. If this were true, everyone could
sell adspace in free Xeroxed copies of any novel they wanted.

8a.) Also, to put ads on a YouTube video, the user must signify they
are the sole creator of the content. For this reason, your client is
in violation of YouTube guidelines. Should I report that, and should
they care, it could cause problems. I have no reason to do that, but
you should know this is a serious problem.

9.) I could put a subsrciption fee on my site, but then if someone
copy/pastes it to Wikia, folks like yourself will still think they can
use it... right? :) That seems like a less than helpful suggestion.

10.) It is actually in *your* best interest, or rather your client's,
to handle this. It's not on my head. I didn't take anyone's creative
work and profit from it.

11.) My asking price is not $300. It's ad removal from my stories OR
$100 per story as a non-exclusive license. This includes the other
stories which MCP told me the ads could not be removed from at this
time.

12.) You are either unaware of how Copyright law works, or think I am.
Do not call my work "not copyrighted", please. The moment it is
created, the moment it is published, it is covered as copyrighted
material according to US law.

13.) Check my site for time-stamped posts of my stories.
http://slimebeast.com/forum/slimy-stories That forum is what's used to
call content to the story page at http://slimebeast.com/stories

13a.) Also note the copyright notice on my site, which can be
established all the way back to launch with use of Web Archive sites.

14.) You have stated that you understand these are my stories. That
also establishes your intent and knowledge of this fact beyond
anything I have to "prove" to you.

15.) Thanks for your offer of help, but I don't need your assistance
protecting my writing. I already did so. Your client(s) simply did not
understand it was protected - or ignored it.



Since you have made no disclaimer about the contents of this email
being private, I will may decide to share this exchange with the
public at a future date.


Thanks,
C.W.



Bringing MCP in after I looked up who Danielle is and... yeah...



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:42 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>, Danielle [REDACTED] <[SPARKLE T]@hotmail.com> 

Hi Guys,

I researched this a bit and I'm not sure why I'm being told what my
rights are by someone who doesn't have legal training.

Thoughts?
 


Danielle [REDACTED] <[I AM A WIZARD]@hotmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

Feel free to share anything you'd like. I only ask you refrAin from using my full name for privacy concerns.

I never claimed to be a lawyer or anything other than someone to give MCP a little bit of help due to my knowledge.

And what you said isn't entirely true. Not every single thing you write down becomes copyrighted.

It is not my intention to attack or provoke you in any way.

Those articles were published on the wiki and did not hold any disclaimers-so while you didn't post them there I find it a bit troubling you are holding MCP liable.

Obviously, he has even less legal training than I do and doesn't know all the parameters. That being said, I do not think even morally he would do this with a bad intention in mind.

I understand your concern, however I do think the price you are asking is a bit steep. This, narrating stories, is his job and livelyhood at the moment- and they were not stolen with malice. I ask you consider this in your asking price- and perhaps allow these couple videos to slide so long as it doesn't happen in the future and the revenue is cut for the ones published.

I do appreciate your patience on these issues and apologize for inconvenience it might have caused. However, one again, I ask you consider all factors in your decisions.

This is not a large, million-subscriber based man who is looking to steal for profit.

I am only speaking of previous experiences when I say that my main concern here is fraud. Many people claim ownership to something that is not theirs. Obviously my concern is for my friend who is taking rash actions by promising money to strangers- if you see where I'm coming from.



This is pretty freakin' weird, so I bring MCP back in...



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:19 PM 
To: Danielle [REDACTED] <danielle[FUGU]@hotmail.com>, "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Hi,

So here's the the score so far.

- I ask MCP to take off the ads.
- MCP says he can't, but can pay a license fee.
- MCP runs this past you.
- You say not to pay me for my work based on no real knowledge of the law.
- MCP retracts the fee offer he created in the first place.
- I ask to speak to you. You tell me I have no right to my work in
many different ways.
- I counter that concept and of course it just collapses.


This has been a massive waste of my time and an insult to my intelligence.

I don't care if MCP understood or not, I am in the right because my
work is clearly labelled and I did not place it where he found it.

I don't care at this point because of the provocation you didn't
intend - the provocation of jerking me around "Fee, no fee, legal
council says no, it's not your property, it's your property" ... then
on top of it all you tell me this is his livelyhood?

Who am I, Kim Kardashian?

May I remind you I've made $0 off of all the stories *I* created,
while someone else is getting a "livelyhood" off of others' work?

...

I seriously don't care at this point.

Why?

Because professionally speaking I created a property and I am due
payment. If not that, I was willing to go with ads removed from ALL
videos. Not just some.

This is a professional matter, and I don't know why it's become a
silly roundabout to avoid paying a rightful owner SO MCP CAN CONTINUE
TO MAKE MONEY FOREVER ON THE STORY.


This is all ridiculous.


Then you have the spine to tell me I'm asking too much... and to go
back on the Ad thing on other videos so MCP can make $ on my work for
free. Wow.

Just wow.


Your concern is fraud? That's really, really odd, because that's the
definition of what I'm trying to stop. You actually just called me a
"stranger" your friend is unthinkingly offering money to?


I think this convo just needs to be between MCP and myself because
you're just escalating things. That is, if there's any conversation to
be had at this point.
 


Mr.Creepy Pasta <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS>   Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:38 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

Christopher,
As you've stated negotiations are completed. We have both agreed to take down your videos as you requested initially and we were not able to reach an agreement beyond that point.
At this time, the wiki page from which I originally took your story is under Creative Commons licence. The original post from these stories that I have shown all lists them under a CC-By-SA http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/Abandoned_by_Disney http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/Room_Zero
I know you have said that the original poster was not you but all articles link back to an account that refers to all your information, website and photograph.
http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/User:Slimebeast
All of these are shown in screenshot attached as well.
 Under the laws put forth by the CC licence all creative works made from that page are legal in all forms commercial or otherwise. As you had quoted the rules and regulations to me, they state for the wikia that no copyrighted material may be uploaded to wiki. If that is in fact not you, you may want to contact the wikia to have your content removed and seek legal action against he who made the stories available under a CC-BY-SA.
At this time, I no longer want to continue any contact as our agreement is completed The videos are and have been removed per for initial request.



Dude won't let go of the misconception any stories posted on Wikia by anyone are free for him to do with anything he wishes.



Danielle [REDACTED] <[HAMBOIGLAR]@hotmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

I think that you're confused as to what I'm saying.
Look at this from my and his point of view- someone comes in and says "This belongs to me, pay me $300+" etc etc.
Now, you have to understand that this is NOT the first time this has happened and turned out to be false. I told him not to pay you UNTIL he knew for a fact that 1) you were the author, which we have established and 2) until he had slept on it and thought it over. That is the only reason he "retracted" his offer.


I am not saying you don't have the right to your work- it IS yours and thus belongs to you. However, as I stated.. he didn't find it on YOUR website with the disclaimer and had no way to find or contact you as he assumed it was you who was posting it.

You may not have placed it where he found it, and for that I agree it is wrong that someone else stole your work.


I would also like to point out that the only reason I questioned if it was yours was because it was found on a website that you say you didn't publish it to. Which could mean either you took it off the wiki and posted it as your own to your website or the other way around. I am satisfied that the work does indeed belong to you.


I am not trying to say that he owes you nothing- I do think some compensation is in order. However, I do think you are asking for quite a bit and this late in the game. Which, may I add, is why I asked if you would consider some other form of contract between yourself and MCP. Perhaps splitting the revenue the videos gain in the future if he intends to use your work- which would benefit both of you. I am simply asking you to consider your other options- not telling you that they are your only ones. Obviously, MCP has agreed to your terms already, and that is completely fine- if it comes to that.


This isn't to avoid paying the rightful owner "forever", this is to settle things properly and figure out everything so all parties feel good about the choices being made.


I do not know how you can blame him for inability to remove the revenue from all videos- since it is not solely under his control. Believe me, I do understand your frustration in this matter and your position. Obviously if someone adapted and made money off of my work, I would be quite disturbed as well.


The goal is, once again, to come to an agreement all parties are comfortable with. You caught him off guard and he made a hasty decision- which I think is a bad idea under any circumstances.


I am very thankful for you patience thus far, but do ask for just a little more while we try to figure a couple things out.


I'm not asking that he be able to make money off your work for free at all! I think that it would be best, however to discuss all options that benefit you both.


It is my deepest apologies if you believe I have "insulted" your intelligence as that was most certainly not what I was going for.


And what am I to call you? Neither of us, nor anybody in his direct community personally know you.



Danielle [REDACTED] <[MIMIMIMIMI]@hotmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:47 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

And once again- feel free to use any of the things said so long as all names are kept private. Thanks.



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:51 PM 
To: Danielle [REDACTED] <[WOOT]@hotmail.com> 

I really don't need to pursue this as you are not actually informed
enough to be legal council.
 


Danielle [REDACTED] <[BEEP BEEP]@hotmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:24 PM 
To: Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com

Then I would appreciate that you take down anything involving me.
thanks.



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:45 PM 
To: Danielle [REDACTED] <[QWERTYUIOP]@hotmail.com> 

I respectuflly decline.


C.W.



Soo... AGAIN...



Christopher Wolf <chwolf@gmail.com>  Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:43 PM 
To: "Mr.Creepy Pasta" <MCP'S EMAIL ADDRESS> 

Indivitual hosted Wikis have their own rules that supplant overall
Wikia placeholder template information.

http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/Creepypasta_Wiki:Site_Rules

I already told you this.

Next time (and there will be a next time as I'm contacting a lot of
folks) you may want to just go with the morally correct action instead
of doing a bunch of petty research into licenses that don't even
apply.


This has been the worst experience of my Pasta writing 'career'. Thank
you for being completely two-faced on this.


C.W.
« Last Edit: 03:49:32 AM 11/25/13 by Slimebeast »
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #1 on: 05:38:52 PM 11/16/13 »
Not this shit again
 :why:
» You throw a tantrum, but all you seem to accomplish is slight disarray.

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #2 on: 05:46:16 PM 11/16/13 »
Jesus man I don't see why this is an issue. Why couldn't they acknowledge your copyright and cut you in on the profit?
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #3 on: 06:04:24 PM 11/16/13 »
Mr. CP was cool with doing that, then his friend told him not to.

You know how these things go.

"Are you crazy? You don't know who this is, and you're sending him money?"
"You're right."



What I like most about the whole thing is Mr. CP says he wants the Copyright info because otherwise a court wouldn't say he did anything illegal and he'd have nothing to fear.

Not that he wants to do the right thing or, you know, whatever.
« Last Edit: 10:11:17 PM 11/16/13 by Slimebeast »
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #4 on: 10:12:36 PM 11/16/13 »
Reading through that I can see you are a well-informed, and actually pretty funny intellectual :P

You are in the right as far as I can see..but I am not as well read in legal things as you.

Best of luck in your endeavors,

-Doc

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #5 on: 10:17:45 PM 11/16/13 »
Thanks a ton, that means a lot!

I should point out (or did I?) that this is all pretty much resolved now. MCP keeps all the money, and the videos are down so no one gets to watch them. Not an outcome I wanted, but you don't always (ever?) get what you want.

Only thing still cooking are a few posts from Mr. CP's friends still throwing out the "stories are free" and "Mr. CP made you" stuff. But it's dwindling.
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #6 on: 11:52:11 AM 11/19/13 »
People are stupid.

"widely accepted norm that the wikia is free domain" - Complete B.S. The majority of wikis that I know of use a CC license that explicitly forbids for-profit use. The CreepyPasta wikia is an oddity in that regard. Not that it matters, of course. A third-party website can't license your stories any more than I can sell you my neighbor's uncle's brother-in-law's car.

Also, the first lawyer is not only a dick, he's also wrong. There's no assumption of public domain coverage for an obviously copyrighted work.

"Danielle" is wrong, too. There's no requirement of a copyright notice, to take legal action, demand takedown, or for any other purpose. That hasn't been the case since... 1976-ish?

Good God, how do these people make it out of law school? Or high school, for that matter?

Gah, the dumbery continues.

"They are not passing it off as their own- but rather just showing their own 'adaptation' of it. It's the same thing with song covers and such."

Song covers (and such) are covered by what's called compulsory licenses. Notice the word "license," which means that there's, y'know, a licensing process, where (surprise!) money changes hands. It's true that the copyright holder cannot prevent a compulsory license from being issued, but the license is only in effect as long as royalties are being paid.

I'm almost certain there's no compulsory licensing process in place for literary works, and I'm exactly certain that anyone who actually works in entertainment law would know whether or not that's the case.

Also, damn coincidental typos - "I'll probably send of just a quick notice" and "let me start of". Hrm.

People are stupid.

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #7 on: 11:53:30 AM 11/19/13 »
I actually listened to Mr. CP's reading of "Abandoned By Disney" many months ago. It was alright, except he mispronounced something and I thought it was funny. Don't remember what.

Good story, though. Was there a real place you had in mind for the location? Johnny Weissmuller (Tarzan) built a safari-themed park on the Florida space coast in the early 1960s, fully stocked with animals and everything. It ran for a few months and ultimately closed down, but not before the staff let loose herds of antelope, giraffes, chimpanzees, and I think a lion into the nearby swamps. The lot is abandoned, and you can still go there and see the overgrown enclosures, ticket booth, etc. Tropical Wonderland... like urban legends on meth.

On another note, those numbers for ad revenue are like what I thought they would be squared. That's some really decent cash they're pulling in for just a handful of videos.

For, y'know, stolen intellectual property... and such.

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #8 on: 01:45:01 PM 11/19/13 »
Hey, are you writing for Broken Frontier?

Also, yeah, the inspiration for "Mowgli's Palace" was basically the Treasure Island resort, plus general themes shared by all these abandoned parks. I guess releasing animals is pretty standard for these people. :awesome:
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #9 on: 01:56:27 PM 11/19/13 »
Yeah, I'm at Broken Frontier... for the time being. As soon as they figure out I'm nobody, I'm sure I'll be outta dare.  :lookaround:

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #10 on: 01:59:42 PM 11/19/13 »
And so, in a year, he was running it.
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #11 on: 11:01:30 PM 11/24/13 »
I've been browsing this site for a long time now (You are a fantastic writer!) and haven't actually made an account until seeing this. I understand that this Danielle person has no idea what they're doing and is not a reasonable legal council - what I don't understand is why you care that MCP uploads videos without paying you.

I don't mean this to sound like a confrontational thing - I really am a big fan and don't want to start a fight or anything. I have been curious about copyright law and have asked for insight in many other occurrences of people citing copyright and intellectual property laws in hobby work, and got no reasonable responses, so this comes across to me as an opportunity to get some insight into why this stuff happens. That leads to my primary question?

 I know that they're your stories, but he credited you as the author and even linked to your page, and you also don't care if he doesn't have ads on them  - why do you care if and only if he is making money off them?
« Last Edit: 11:03:16 PM 11/24/13 by CoreyFisher »

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #12 on: 11:29:01 PM 11/24/13 »
No problem, I don't mind folks asking questions - especially if it's a confusing situation like this.

Here's a list of reasons I don't want people profiting from my work, off the top of my head...


1.) I created free material, and from the start it was supposed to be free. Putting ads on YouTube readings is the same as selling adspace in a book of my work. It's just not right, morally.

If a musician posted free-to-download tracks on his site, it'd be wrong of someone else to make money on them just by laying vocals over it. You know, unless the musician said it was okay in the first place.

2.) The "business" of creative work functions in a very clear way. When someone else creates something, you don't use it to make money for yourself. This is why you don't/can't download artwork off of DeviantArt and sell T-Shirts, Prints, etc. Again, this is a moral aspect. If you want to make money for yourself off the work of another, you need to pay them - or just not do it. It's the bedrock of the whole system. If someone loves flipping burgers, it's still not okay to build a restaurant around them and charge people while they do it for free.

3.) Doing something like this makes it seem acceptable for others to take it even further. The entire reason this started, and the way I learned YouTube videos don't always just benefiy YouTube, was someone asking if they could do something with my work. Something I'd prefer they didn't do. When I said not to, they brought up that people like Mr. CP can make money on my work so why not?

That's a very real problem. If Mr. CP can make a living (their words, not mine) off of my stories, how then can I ask people not to sell Amazon books of my work? If I let both of those go, how can I object to the fellow who makes an indie movie of my story? How can I object if someone makes a "Slender" style game and sells it?

It goes all the way up the chain, through thousands of dollars, because every single person can refer back down the ladder to someone else who did something similar before them.

4.) I'm poor as shit. :P If anyone should make money on my work, it's me and not a fellow who's getting thousands upon thousands of dollars for reading other people's work.

How does it make sense for everyone except for the creator of the work to make a "living" on it?

5.) Everything I created was clearly marked as my property. That was ignored. When someone does that, it again sets a bad course of events in motion if you just let it happen. Mr. Creepypasta claimed to have found everything on the Wiki, and for that reason he said he thought it was free. However, his videos occasionally linked directly to my site instead, where the ownership is made clear. So... you know... *cough*

6.) Mr. CP is being lazy/weird about looking up whether or not he has the right to reproduce things for profit. Above all else, he and his friends have claimed this has happened to him before! If so, why isn't he bothering to check if the stories are actually public domain? Answer: Because you get the ad money while you can, then just take it down of someone complains. After all, the bulk of the traffic comes when it's a new post.

Personally, I don't think that kind of behavior should be encouraged -- even just on the benefit-of-the-doubt laziness in researching a story's ownership.


In the end, there are tons of ways people steal the work of others on the web. Sometimes they just credit it to themselves. Sometimes they sell it. Sometimes they make money off of it by other means.

It all has to be addressed, because otherwise the creator is "free game" for anything and everything people want to do to abuse their work.

Some people don't care if people make money on their stuff. That's cool and all, but then again there are some people who like when people poop on them. It's all subjective, and I'd prefer neither happen to me. :P


Mr. CP knows I wrote the work. Everyone who has read it knows that.

However, because I don't have paperwork from the US Copyright Office, he feels he doesn't have to cut me in. (Not how it works, but moving on...) That's very different from legitimate concern about authorship. It's more of a "gotcha" loophole to keep the loot.

« Last Edit: 11:38:34 PM 11/24/13 by Slimebeast »
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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #13 on: 01:18:27 AM 11/25/13 »
Hey, i read over all of this and have realized one thing, even though you write very good stories, the fact of the matter is that i hadn't heard of you until Mr Creepy Pastas video came out. and im sure that is the same with many many other people out there, now im not saying which of you is right in this legal jazz, because really its just a dance anyway. im saying that your future works (if there will be any) will no longer be sought after by me, because frankly you lost my respect with this whole money dance. I just want you to think about that and realize that not everything is about the money, the fact that your name is out there and growing more and more popular because of videos like Mr creepy pastas could lead into you having published works in the future, and that you are becoming famous as a pasta writer, but i would never have heard of you if not for Mr creepypasta. Why do you write stories, if not to be read? Respect is the point that i want to pass here because you are very likely the only publisher out there who is unhappy about your writings being read on youtube for money. So many other publishers could do as you have, but none to my knowledge have, they are likely glad that their works are being appreciated widely. Are you not happy with the amount of appreciation there is for your work, because that's how it comes across. And are you not such a generous person as to give someone your words to read so that their lives may be made that little bit easier. Do you not feel good when someone says "Hey, i heard your latest story on youtube and boy was it amazing! you really need to write more! because i enjoy your writings!"

essentially i personally think that you should let it slide, like everyone else and be happy that people appreciate your work, be it in written or verbal form. Money isn't everything, hell if it was then the people who created the Hamburger would be rolling in their graves at the way their idea is being sold nowadays.

I hope you take this into consideration and think about why you are writing in the first place.

Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation

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Re: Mr. CreepyPasta/Slimebeast Conversation
« Reply #14 on: 01:25:54 AM 11/25/13 »
he still has my respect, it was the fact that SOMEONE ELSE made money off of HIS works. In my mind if anyone was in the wrong it is the company that Mr.Creepypasta works for.
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