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Author Topic: Suggestions  (Read 288095 times)

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on: 10:19:00 AM 10/18/15
Change to Electric Fence options.

IRL, a make shift electric fence made with a car battery would have little effect on something that can't die from cardiac arrest or asphyxiation. The battery would short out before any significant damage was actually done.

Against a living person, it would be quite a jolt and possibly cause death.

Proposed change;

-Undead treat electric fences as if they were chain link fence while humans still have to deal with electrical damage (unless they're wearing insulated gloves).

or

-Undead short out electric fences (after taking 1 hit of initial electrical damage) turning them into chain link fences.


1 hit worth of damage, not a single damage point. As far as I can tell from checking the wayback memories and a few points here and there that Mo made, the idea of keeping things as close to real  as possible was what the goal was (keeping in mind vampires and zombies are real in this world).

A dead body can not be set on fire from electricity, it can be burned from a large amount of electrical current in a localized area. Even lightning strikes to a living person only affect where it travels. The damage and death come from the effect of electricity on a living organisms biological functions. Undead don't qualify for that and would short out a battery operated fence before it would kill them (except in low HP cases).

Electric fences are designed to keep the living out of places or to pen living things in.

« Last Edit: 10:24:07 AM 10/18/15 by Priest »
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Kraufen

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on: 10:27:07 AM 10/18/15


1 hit worth of damage, not a single damage point. As far as I can tell from checking the wayback memories and a few points here and there that Mo made, the idea of keeping things as close to real  as possible was what the goal was (keeping in mind vampires and zombies are real in this world).

A dead body can not be set on fire from electricity, it can be burned from a large amount of electrical current in a localized area. Even lightning strikes to a living person only affect a small area. The damage and death come from the effect of electricity on a living organisms biological functions. Undead don't qualify for that.
Regardless that would still making them largely pointless even if they did only do 10 damage once. You may as well outright just remove them from the game and make some other option.
Thanks for ignoring my other options such as skills and maybe linking the electric fences to make stronger current.
I'm sorry you broke into one of our houses and probably died hitting the electric fences. I'tll be okay. I would support nerfing the damage to 5, or if it does damage only once, to up the damage it does once.


EDIT:
Muscles are stimulated by electricity. The effect of an electric shock depends on which muscles the current goes through. A current of more than 10 mA causes sustained contraction (tetanus) of the flexors, that is, the muscles that close the fingers and draw the limbs towards the body. The victim thus cannot let go of the source of current.

If the extensors (the muscles that open the figures and extend the limbs away from the body) are tetanized, the victim is propelled away from the current source, sometimes as much as ten metres!

Muscles, ligaments and tendons may tear as a result of the sudden contraction caused by an electric shock. Tissue can also be burned if the shock is lasting and the current is high.

I`m fairly certain zombies still need muscles to move, or they can't move. It could also remove AP from undead rather than HP. Maybe send them another block away, if there is another fence there they could receive more damage.

Last I checked Electricity can also impair brain functions, which the undead parasite fungus clearly needs to at least move. Since it would probably be the only function left, therefore it got hit by a hard enough electrical current, it could damage whatever it needs to move.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/security/effet_courant.html

Again I'd support nerfing it some way, maybe it requiring more car batteries for more damage, I dunno, but essentially rendering them pointless is in no way helpful, at least not to humans, which they are not made to keep out or in, gameplay wise
« Last Edit: 10:41:48 AM 10/18/15 by Kraufen »



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on: 11:11:16 AM 10/18/15
I don't care what you support or not and I don't care that your butthurt that I didn't comment on the skill suggestions.

To put your ass at ease, here's some commentary lotion on your suggestions;

"You may as well remove them at that point considering humans can just use rooftop run to get by them essentially making electric fencing pointless." -You jumped from my suggestion of making electric fencing more realistic to ERMAHGERD I CAN'T HANDLE A CHANGE SO I'M JUMPING TO THE EXTREME AND GET RID OF DA FANCE.

I proposed several changes that keep with reality, including one where it turns from electric to normal chain link.


"Essentially what you are asking for is to make them completely pointless." -Not at all, with one suggestion I suggested that they affect living tissue and not undead things and with the other suggestion I proposed taking initial damage and then staying active as a barrier.


"Why even put them up if they do 1 damage, or no damage at all." -You misunderstood what I was trying to say and have completely missed the point of electrifying a fence irl. This specific point didn't even deserve recognition. I'm still pointing it out so you can't cry in the reply I know your butthurt is going to force you to say

"They exist as a deterrent." -Yes they do and would still apply as a deterrent to other humans who work for undead.


"Maybe make them do somewhat less damage, either with a skill or in general, IE 5 instead of 10." -No, the damage is good but needs to be applied to the correct species. You can't effectively electrocute something that is dead and expect it to die from cardiac arrest or asphyxiation.

"Or make them easier to break." -No, no matter what, it's still a metal based fence and should be treated as such.

"Or a skill for each undead race that makes them take less electrical damage." -This jumps back to my point that you can't use a weak electrical source to cause electrical damage to a dead thing. You can cause the flesh to cook in a localized area, and that's my thought behind the 1 hit worth of damage before shorting out but you decided to gloss over that fact without thinking about it.

"The other option would be one electric fence linked to chain does less damage, but if your whole wall of fence is made of electric it does more as they are connected to more car batteries." -This isn't a viable option, each side has to be treated as a separate surface. Using your idea of increased or decreased damage means that as long as one piece of fence is destroyed, all the fences would stop being electrified at once, rendering all the AP spent into building and placing them pointless.


"Also realism is zombies and vampires bodies still have nerves." -They do and their dead. The physical structure is still inside but it has no function. It can't transmit pain, it can't transmit reflex actions. It's not receiving blood and oxygen because undead don't have respiratory function or blood flow (vampires might have blood flow after feeding but no oxygen so all nerves would be dead).

"Their body would still take damage even if they can't feel it. Its like those people who feel no pain, they still take damage even if they cannot feel it." -Undead would receive minor burns, and at worst immobility for a short period due to muscles being forced to contract. We're talking about a car battery, it really can't do a lot of damage. Also, your example of using living people as an analog for undead doesn't quite fit.

"A body can easily be set on fire from being electrified." -You really need to stop getting your information from TV and movies. Here's a link to a fairly accurate and basic understanding of how electricity kills and why a car battery wouldn't sizzle someone. http://gizmodo.com/5262971/giz-explains-how-electrocution-really-kills-you

"TLDR making them do one damage or no damage would make them pointless, they dont exist to keep humans out of places." -These were never the options I suggested, they were what you decided the options were. Keeping humans and animals out of places or livestock in places is exactly what electric fencing is for.

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Kraufen

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on: 11:55:28 AM 10/18/15
I don't care what you support or not and I don't care that your butthurt that I didn't comment on the skill suggestions.


To put your ass at ease, here's some commentary lotion on your suggestions;

"You may as well remove them at that point considering humans can just use rooftop run to get by them essentially making electric fencing pointless." -You jumped from my suggestion of making electric fencing more realistic to ERMAHGERD I CAN'T HANDLE A CHANGE SO I'M JUMPING TO THE EXTREME AND GET RID OF DA FANCE.



I proposed several changes that keep with reality, including one where it turns from electric to normal chain link.

And I posted other things, like upping damage if you do that what you suggested. It costs 10 ap to make and place. If it hits only once for ten damage, its literally 1 damage for AP used, making placing them utter pointless.Also do you even know what rooftop run skill is?

"Essentially what you are asking for is to make them completely pointless." -Not at all, with one suggestion I suggested that they affect living tissue and not undead things and with the other suggestion I proposed taking initial damage and then staying active as a barrier.

As stated above I suggested if we do that upping the damage, for same reasons as above

"Why even put them up if they do 1 damage, or no damage at all." -You misunderstood what I was trying to say and have completely missed the point of electrifying a fence irl. This specific point didn't even deserve recognition. I'm still pointing it out so you can't cry in the reply I know your butthurt is going to force you to say
Yes, I misunderstood, read above about my suggestion upping the damage if it only affects once

"They exist as a deterrent." -Yes they do and would still apply as a deterrent to other humans who work for undead.

√ Rooftop Run - By crossing rooftops, you can find safe entrances into adjoining buildings without stepping onto the ground below.  Literally what part of rooftop run that you don't understand. They can pass through the inside of buildings with just one skill. This is already a problem but its also essential because we need the same skill to bypass the fences. but yeah it would make it useless because most humans working for the undead would buy this skill.


"Maybe make them do somewhat less damage, either with a skill or in general, IE 5 instead of 10." -No, the damage is good but needs to be applied to the correct species. You can't effectively electrocute something that is dead and expect it to die from cardiac arrest or asphyxiation.


"Or make them easier to break." -No, no matter what, it's still a metal based fence and should be treated as such.

"Or a skill for each undead race that makes them take less electrical damage." -This jumps back to my point that you can't use a weak electrical source to cause electrical damage to a dead thing. You can cause the flesh to cook in a localized area, and that's my thought behind the 1 hit worth of damage before shorting out but you decided to gloss over that fact without thinking about it.

"The other option would be one electric fence linked to chain does less damage, but if your whole wall of fence is made of electric it does more as they are connected to more car batteries." -This isn't a viable option, each side has to be treated as a separate surface. Using your idea of increased or decreased damage means that as long as one piece of fence is destroyed, all the fences would stop being electrified at once, rendering all the AP spent into building and placing them pointless.

And what you are suggesting makes it pointless to unless damage is upped for that initial one time shock. Otherwise I may as well just place regular fence since its easier to place and wont require me using 6 ap just to do 10 damage when with a shotgun I can take out a full health zombie if every shot hits its mark in that AP


"Also realism is zombies and vampires bodies still have nerves." -They do and their dead. The physical structure is still inside but it has no function. It can't transmit pain, it can't transmit reflex actions. It's not receiving blood and oxygen because undead don't have respiratory function or blood flow (vampires might have blood flow after feeding but no oxygen so all nerves would be dead).
Again - not feeling pain does not equate not taking damage...

"Their body would still take damage even if they can't feel it. Its like those people who feel no pain, they still take damage even if they cannot feel it." -Undead would receive minor burns, and at worst immobility for a short period due to muscles being forced to contract. We're talking about a car battery, it really can't do a lot of damage. Also, your example of using living people as an analog for undead doesn't quite fit.
Again I suggested multiple car batteries, and adding onto that a generator or something to make it stronger

"A body can easily be set on fire from being electrified." -You really need to stop getting your information from TV and movies. Here's a link to a fairly accurate and basic understanding of how electricity kills and why a car battery wouldn't sizzle someone. http://gizmodo.com/5262971/giz-explains-how-electrocution-really-kills-you
Already posted a link of my own, I guess you were writing a reply when I posted it

"TLDR making them do one damage or no damage would make them pointless, they dont exist to keep humans out of places." -These were never the options I suggested, they were what you decided the options were. Keeping humans and animals out of places or livestock in places is exactly what electric fencing is for.
However in game functionality like that is pointless, its meant to keep undead out not humans or keeping livestock in. Yes you can use it to lock people in buildings but thats called trolling and generally frowned upon



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on: 12:21:29 PM 10/18/15
BTW I have some other realistic suggestions and implications

Why can zombies use radios? They shouldn't even be able to speak. Remove that shit.
Why can they add or remove clothing to themselves? Why would they need to do that? Remove that shit
Why do zombies have healing items? How do they know where to find them? How do they know it will help them in any way? Why would they even think of healing themselves? Remove that shit.
Why are we completely fine after being savagely mauled by zombies/vampires just after being stuck with one needle? clearly that needs to be changed to since we just get up and go about our business.
Why can't vampires use guns? Wouldn't they be better at using guns than humans with being supernatural beings and all, last I checked vampires in most mythologies weren't mindless monsters.

My point is, realism is fine and all, bit if it takes away from the fun of the game I don't see a point in it.

And I just want to say you dont make bad suggestions, I just feel they need to be tweaked in some ways a lot or in some essense only a little
« Last Edit: 12:31:07 PM 10/18/15 by Kraufen »



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on: 12:58:50 PM 10/18/15
Your entire argument against my ideas is based around taking the rooftop skill, seems to me that that's what needs to be slapped with the nerf bat in order for my ideas to become effective. Nothing you've said negates my commentary on what an electric fence can actually do though.

Your points around humans being able to dodge the fences entirely and thus making them useless doesn't factor in that an electric fence would keep out all low level humans (and those without the skill) and provide 1 round of damage before shorting out in addition to remaining a metal barrier. You say that making a fence and placing it takes 10 AP, and compare it to being able to decimate a zed with a shotgun and 10 AP.

So here's a scenario that's fairly common from what I can tell, that decimated zed has two friends and once you've blown your 10 AP on one zed, you still have 2 others to contend with. A electric fence turned chain link fence does the initial damage, and then provides a barrier for all undead and low level humans who still have to expend a metric asston of AP to tear it the rest of the way down. Seems quite balanced to me.

On top of all that, you're getting stuck on not feeling pain does not equate to not taking damage. I've addressed this already and there's just not enough juice in a car battery to cause the kind of continual damage that your trying to protect. Your solution of stringing a bunch of batteries into the fence or adding a generator to increase damage isn't the solution or even applicable to why I was proposing the change. I'm going for a realistic-ish approach and you seem to be pushing for extra defence from undead and the stats say Humans don't need the extra defence.

As for the rooftop skill;

Once I take it and examine what it can and can't do, what cost it has to use and where it's applicable I'm sure I'll have commentary on that as well. As for now, I don't have a full understanding of it's capabilities aside from what's written down in the info on the skill page. My initial thoughts make me wonder if it costs AP to use, does it take building height into account (I.E. you can travel between buildings of equal height or from a taller building to a shorter building but not from a shorter one to a taller one), does it cost extra to enter a building that's been fenced or barricaded. These are things that I don't know yet, but I will.

(added to address the points in the continuation post of yours)

-Zeds shouldn't be able to use radios aside from listening to them IF they were left on while they were human and only if they have the intellect skill.

-Zeds shouldn't have access to their inventory at all. Not picking things up, not using things (without the skill that allows weapon use)because they're zombies and crave brains not a shiny new baseball bat. Essentially, have everything auto filtered for the search option. So a zed can search for players and auto toss everything else away in disgust.

-You can't take away something a player has searched for as a human, I could understand dropping your basic inventory on zombification and retaining worn things like clothing and backpacks but in order to use the weapons skills in that scenario, weapons would need to be worn and I don't think we can wear a weapon so that idea is dead before it starts.

-As far as I can tell, we're not completely fine after being mauled and revived. We start with lower HP and a good chunk of AP spent to stand up. I don't think the revival serum has ever been dissected and explained, for all we know, it's a fast acting, short lifespan antifungal plasmatoxin mixed in a slow acting, long lasting hemoglobin regenerator base.

-The vamps can't use guns as far as I read because their based off of vampire blah from some movie or other where they're damn near feral and have big fucky hands, their not sparkly, their not hyper intelligent or magical. Their one pay grade up from zeds with some limitations on what they can and can't hold.

The fun of the game will always be there whether or not any changes are implemented HR/SW have always been fun games. Balancing this game needs some more attention and the stats show it.

I don't expect any of my suggestions to make it into the game, Mammon is coding and I know better than to expect him to work on something I suggest. I don't have boobs or money to motivate him and wouldn't expect him to code because I want a change anyways. He helps Mo, not me.
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on: 01:12:42 PM 10/18/15
Another thing, is also unrealistic but this isn't to prove a point I have always found this a problem. I feel like AP should function like BP did in scrollwars.
For one what happens when I run out of ap, why am I stuck in one place? Am I just so tired I can't move? Even if I am tired why can't I get into a building to escape.

I feel like AP should only be for actions i.e reloading, attacking, barricading, sensing ect.

Another thing was the mediation like in sw, we should have a way to maybe *set home here like in UD but in our "home" we could set ourselves to sleep which would increase ap by like two ap returning, but you can't hear any radio or anything, and you take more damage when sleeping from attacks.

Also auto-defense function would be neat but unsure if doable, you could maybe set what weapon to use via profile and your character could attack back like when one attacks npc's



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on: 01:37:12 PM 10/18/15
I'm not sure of this but I think AP was changed from SW style to the HR style to prevent or limit something or other, Mo might be able to answer the exact why but I'm pretty sure it was done like that for a reason.

The meditation style (sleeping) feature and the auto defense feature are things I support fully.

Sleep - no chat heard at all, ap regens with either a bonus or at a x2 rate)

::You've managed to develop the ability to sleep anywhere, AP regenerates at a faster rate at the cost of obliviousness.
*If sleeping; Can't auto defend for the first hit, add dazed if woken up and doesn't automatically go back to sleep if left alive after the first hit. Radio and chat come back on if woken up.

Zombies can't sleep, Vampires have a similar skill called Torpor

Auto-Defend -  Get hit, attack back with the first weapon in the list

*Can't reload weapons and would default to first non-reloadable melee weapon if you run out of ammo for the first slot weapon so holding a full inventory of loaded guns wouldn't help you). Undead use their highest hit % melee attack.
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on: 02:01:32 PM 10/18/15
Another thing, is also unrealistic but this isn't to prove a point I have always found this a problem. I feel like AP should function like BP did in scrollwars.
For one what happens when I run out of ap, why am I stuck in one place? Am I just so tired I can't move? Even if I am tired why can't I get into a building to escape.

I feel like AP should only be for actions i.e reloading, attacking, barricading, sensing ect.

Change from AP to BP would be really nice and alot more realistic it seems,  if you were to do this it would certainly increase the action which sounds great. But maybe make it so it still cost points to use the chat, doesn't really cut out the Duggar spam though but I guess that's where the ignore list comes in.

Slimebeast please.
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on: 11:50:15 PM 10/18/15
There was basically a plan for Scroll Wars to have a bunch of new point types in a huge update that never occurred.

Walk Points, Battle Points, Action Points, etc. all separate for easier management.

Dunno if it'd work for HR, but there's an informations.
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on: 11:58:25 PM 10/18/15
There was basically a plan for Scroll Wars to have a bunch of new point types in a huge update that never occurred.

Walk Points, Battle Points, Action Points, etc. all separate for easier management.

Dunno if it'd work for HR, but there's an informations.
That's not a bad idea. I just don't really like the whole limit on walking. Maybe a limit to it in certain circumstances (I.E) if you are hurt it starts to cost AP to move, or some of the status effects
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on: 12:41:07 AM 10/19/15
There was basically a plan for Scroll Wars to have a bunch of new point types in a huge update that never occurred.

Walk Points, Battle Points, Action Points, etc. all separate for easier management.

Dunno if it'd work for HR, but there's an informations.

I like it! It sounds much better
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on: 02:29:57 AM 10/19/15
There was basically a plan for Scroll Wars to have a bunch of new point types in a huge update that never occurred.

Walk Points, Battle Points, Action Points, etc. all separate for easier management.

Dunno if it'd work for HR, but there's an informations.

If any of this was implemented, I'd reduce the number of accounts any one player could have to 1 but raise the number of characters a player could have to 3.

People could still technically be alt whores but it would take that extra step of using multiple IPs.

I'm not too sure how many unique players there are but I'm curious as fuck.
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on: 02:47:08 AM 10/19/15
If any of this was implemented, I'd reduce the number of accounts any one player could have to 1 but raise the number of characters a player could have to 3.

People could still technically be alt whores but it would take that extra step of using multiple IPs.

I'm not too sure how many unique players there are but I'm curious as fuck.
There are already at least two people who are confirmed to have alt armies.

More than half the current players aren't alts apperently. though thats what Mammon told me like 4 days ago



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on: 02:27:47 PM 10/19/15
That's not a bad idea. I just don't really like the whole limit on walking. Maybe a limit to it in certain circumstances (I.E) if you are hurt it starts to cost AP to move, or some of the status effects
ALSO OMG ITS MO

Yeah, on Scroll Wars it was going to be that walking over "normal" tiles would cost 0 Walk Points (WP), but walking through forests, fields, etc. would cost 1, walking mountains would take 3 or 4, etc.
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