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Author Topic: Suggestions  (Read 114660 times)

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Týr

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #30 on: 03:36:16 PM 10/25/13 »
Indeed, just didn't want it to seem like "1 AP for impassible, 2 for next level, 4 for next" etc.

I'm going to start rating the things you come up with in stars. Here you go:

:3stars:
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molh394

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #31 on: 02:21:55 AM 10/26/13 »
Can we make it possible for vampires to enter barricades? Commonsensically, there's no real reason we can't. Game balance-wise, I guess it made sense for vamps not to be able to enter when we were superdominant, but not anymore. You can make it a bit harder for us to enter if you have to, e.g. can't enter when heavy or extremely heavy. I think that would make more sense.

Týr

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #32 on: 03:01:17 AM 10/26/13 »
Can we make it possible for vampires to enter barricades? Commonsensically, there's no real reason we can't. Game balance-wise, I guess it made sense for vamps not to be able to enter when we were superdominant, but not anymore. You can make it a bit harder for us to enter if you have to, e.g. can't enter when heavy or extremely heavy. I think that would make more sense.

There are zero reasons that vampires should be able to climb over barricades.

Have vampire skills been changed since I last played? As far as I know they can still sense straight through low-level barricades. Making it so that they can climb through them makes having low-level barricades pointless. You're then asking humans to dump mass amounts of AP into building up high-level barricades when it already takes a decent amount with failures.

And what do zombies get from that? They already have the worst time finding prey as it is.

I award you no stars: :0stars:
« Last Edit: 03:08:29 AM 10/26/13 by Týr »
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molh394

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #33 on: 03:41:17 AM 10/26/13 »
Making it so that they can climb through them makes having low-level barricades pointless.
That's assuming that the whole point in cading is to fight against vampires, which is no longer true.

And what do zombies get from that? They already have the worst time finding prey as it is.
Make a suggestion for them thenn! There's no reason why all suggestions have to benefit alll races, you know.

Týr

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #34 on: 03:53:10 AM 10/26/13 »
That's assuming that the whole point in cading is to fight against vampires, which is no longer true.
The point of barricading is to stop the undead from waltzing through the door and eating your face. Which is exactly what vampires would be able to do if they could climb through barricades of any level-- making the barricade useless.

Make a suggestion for them thenn! There's no reason why all suggestions have to benefit alll races, you know.
I don't need to make a suggestion for zombies to the effect of yours because they don't need one any less than vampires do in this regard.
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molh394

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #35 on: 05:00:44 AM 10/26/13 »
climb through barricades of any level
"At any level"???

-- making the barricade useless.
How about the zombies and the NPCs

I don't need to make a suggestion for zombies to the effect of yours because they don't need one any less than vampires do in this regard.
Why were you speaking for the zombies thenn


-------


Okay, maybe you need a longer explanation. Here goes (bear with me here):

There used to be a certain "Rock-Paper-Scissors" kind of balance around here. Namely, Vampires kill Humans, Humans kill Zombies, Zombies kill Vampires. Vamps kill Humans cos they can sense and get to humans easily, while humans can't find them as easily. Also Vamps can turn humans easily, while Humans can only revive, which doesn't do much unless you're a new vampire. Humans kill zombies because humans can revive zombies, and zombies can't do much about that. Neither is it easy for zombies to find humans, with Hiding and Cades and etc. Lastly, zombies kill vampires, because zombies can easily turn vampires with their infection, and there isn't much a vampire can do about that. Vampires can try to turn zombies back, but a zombie with 70 health and infectious blood is likely going to turn you instead. So the balance held out nicely, except for the efforts of groups here-and-there to distort it.

It no longer holds out, obviously. Recently, there were only, like, 3 vampires in the whole game? Before I started vamping there were only, like, 5. Versus 20+ zombies, many of whom are really Human players who found it boring to stay Human for so long (and 10+ humans). Indeed, the game was so imbalanced towards Vampires that we have Human players trying to get Vamped just so that they can play vamps. You have the leader of the number one human group (the number one group, in fact, by far) spending most of his week doing his best to get and stay Vamped, just so that he can play this side of the game. When I asked him directly, he told me he wanted to "know his enemy". He had to spend so much time and effort just to be on the side of his own enemy! @_@

So when you tell me that this will make cades "useless", this doesn't make sense to me, you know. I mean, suure, this will make it more "useless" for humans who want to barricade themselves from vampires, and make it easier for vamps to get a meal. But this ignores the fact that the humans already control the game. You see chunks of the map in crucial areas EHBed (something you yourself have noted is usually difficult to achieve for human players). You see people I vamped getting revived, like, an hour later, and you see that happening repeatedly in a day. Whereas vampire players have to wait days (sometimes weeks, before I started vamping) to get back to their preferred class. It's not like anyone is having any problems keeping vamps out, and it's not like it's a problem when they fail to keep them out either.

I'm not asking for cades to become useless, you know. Just, maybe, let vampires enter non-heavily caded areas. Give us some way to do so, even with increased AP or whatever, without having to tear the whole damn thing down. I mean, look at a vampire: it's highly intelligent, it has access to all its limbs, it can use physical tools just as easily and has no reason not to. Why not? The only reason why is because you think humans need the protection, which I am pretty sure isn't the case right now. It used to be, back when Vamps ruled Twilight, but it's no longer the case.

In fact, if you do so, you give a chance for vampires to play with human players. You allow us the odd lightly-barricaded place to sleep from random NPCs, and from intruding zombies our bane. There's a basis of cooperation now, like how Humans and Zeds are cooperating right now, whereas before that it could only be Humans vs Vampires. Wouldn't that make for a more interesting, less rigid game?

I don't really expect to convince you, honestly, even after writing such a huuge post, because by all measures it does seem that Humans vs Vampires is your own mindset. It's how you've been playing it all this while, after all. And why not? After all, as a human player, the game never offered any possibility of playing any other way till now. As a stauchly-human player, you couldn't have seen it any other way. So I guess it falls to me to give the other perspective. Really now, after it hit 3 vampires only it should have been obvious enough. But ah wells. :/

Mary

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #36 on: 05:24:50 AM 10/26/13 »
Can we make it possible for vampires to enter barricades? Commonsensically, there's no real reason we can't. Game balance-wise, I guess it made sense for vamps not to be able to enter when we were superdominant, but not anymore. You can make it a bit harder for us to enter if you have to, e.g. can't enter when heavy or extremely heavy. I think that would make more sense.

This is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Vampires already have it the easiest.
» You throw a tantrum, but all you seem to accomplish is slight disarray.

Týr

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #37 on: 05:25:10 AM 10/26/13 »
Seriously, have vampire skills been changed? I'm basing my views on what I know to be true circa 2012. That said:

First of all: I'm not a human player. I don't believe we've met until I've returned to the game recently. I am a pro-my-own-group player.

Second of all: You're basing all of your ideas and opinions on the lack of actual players, not game mechanics. Just because there aren't that many vampire players does not mean that vampires need the game to be tailored for them.

Third of all: Vampires are meant to play as loners; they have the skills to survive on their own without the help of other players. This is a direct contrast to humans and zombies who are group and mob-based creatures.

The problem with vampires is that there are no competent or high-level vampires playing, from what I can see. If any of you have the misfortune of turning either myself, Berz or Rusty into a vampire, you will wish vampires didn't exist.

What you're showing is complete bias toward one creature. What I am showing is complete objectivity. The only unbalance in the game as it stands now is within player distribution, not within game mechanics. In fact, if we had 20 each of humans, vampires and zombies, vampires would very quickly begin to dominate since each of those vampires have the capability to survive on their own while the others do not.


In short: If you want to help vampires so much, start a pro-vampire group and get some people in. Then get your levels up. That is literally all you need to do.
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molh394

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #38 on: 05:38:19 AM 10/26/13 »
This is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Vampires already have it the easiest.
haet u 2 mary :'(

If any of you have the misfortune of turning either myself, Berz or Rusty into a vampire, you will wish vampires didn't exist.
Let's test this! :D

Týr

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #39 on: 05:49:47 AM 10/26/13 »
Let's test this! :D

Quote
molh394 ¦ Level 31 Vampire.
Group: Cleansed in Blood
Rank: Embraced Kindred

Now it all makes sense.
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Mary

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #40 on: 06:35:33 AM 10/26/13 »
loadsa words
There's 3 vampires because they're not trying.

I actively went around zeddifying as many vampires as I possibly could. When I started the player list looked something like 21, 14, 32. I personally zeddified around 18 so I'm not claiming it was singlehandedly, but all in all I think it was a successful operation.

Vampires are not at all doing badly, it's the players that play them that are doing badly.
» You throw a tantrum, but all you seem to accomplish is slight disarray.

molh394

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #41 on: 11:12:42 AM 10/26/13 »
If any of you have the misfortune of turning either myself, Berz or Rusty into a vampire, you will wish vampires didn't exist.
Ok, done.

Show me what Berz has got.

There's 3 vampires because they're not trying.

And I guess when we do try, you'll say that vamps have an easier time anyways, as you already did?

Mary

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #42 on: 04:41:22 PM 10/26/13 »
And I guess when we do try, you'll say that vamps have an easier time anyways, as you already did?
They do. They have goddamn superman xray vision, they (along with zombies) don't have to stand up as human if they get revived, they have bloodlust which while I'm not sure what the numbers were changed to, is one of the strongest skills in the game, they have innate armor, they have more AP than zombies, they can take down barricades with a sledgehammer faster than zombies.

They're pretty strong.
» You throw a tantrum, but all you seem to accomplish is slight disarray.

Týr

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #43 on: 08:45:59 PM 10/26/13 »
I might still hold the record for highest bloodlust, if it hasn't been changed since then.

Ah, I knew I still had these somewhere.


That was a fun day.
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berz

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #44 on: 10:12:05 PM 10/26/13 »
That was before the weakpoint body part system was added too. It may be possible on a certain swipe to get a hilariously high number.

Ok, done.

Show me what Berz has got.

Damn, if i knew there was a wager being made on my ability I would have shirked getting a revive and made it my mission to permanently damage the delicate status quo of the game in the following days. My bad.