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Author Topic: Maintaining the Power Plant  (Read 18389 times)

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Kraufen

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on: 03:23:39 AM 12/01/13
I really have no idea what you mean.  Are you talking about alts?  I've got one alt that is on the other side of the map and another that's still part of the Battalion.  So please elaborate on exactly how I've been screwing over the group again instead of making vague accusations without any sort of substance behind them.

Yes.  Because humans have insane advantages, whether people want to recognize them or not. (Mostly not so they can continue bitching about how weak humans are, when in fact they're the most powerful and diverse species in the game.)

That's just part of the game, dude.  Its a survival horror game, not a shack up in a hole and hide game.    You're going to have to continually keep an eye on things and re-barricade and maintain your shelter if you want to survive the monsters roaming the streets.  Some shelters its going to be harder to maintain, but the benefits of doing so are greater.  Such as the power plant.  Or the fort, where you have easy access to most of the things humans need to survive in one 9 square area with only one way in or out.  Sure that forces/lets the enemy concentrate their efforts on one spot, but they could just as easily do that at the power plant.
Well Mo said to not argue bout this, so I won't.
I'll only say this
Yes human's have certain advantages, just as other races.
Damage wise however, they are not the strongest. Sure they can work together and heal, but do least damage at their top level.
Vampires, especially well organized vampires can mean certain death for most humans. We haven't seen any of that because none of them are actually trying very hard.
Zombies can literally hide anywhere on the map.

I understand its supposed to be survival horror, but what is a few extra ap to you, Isn't it supposed to be the same for all races? Hard to survive?
Anyways enough of this. Slime wants us to stop arguing so that will happen.



dbizzle

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on: 03:25:22 AM 12/01/13
Essentially calling someone a "foreign terrorist" insinuates a certain amount of dislike.

Yet here you are arguing with me, tit for tat.  What's that make you?

No, it insinuates embellishment. You're obviously not a terrorist you twit, and on the infinitesimally small chance you are there's not much I can do about it.

And that makes me someone who's just responding to each one of your replies, hoping you can calm down a little.



dbizzle

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on: 03:26:11 AM 12/01/13
Anyways enough of this. Slime wants us to stop arguing so that will happen.

Merghh kk, I'm walking away from this for real this time.



Zman090

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on: 03:28:00 AM 12/01/13
Can we all shut the fuck up right now? I'm really getting sick of this.
ヘ(◕。◕ヘ) B-b-ballin!



Atheist

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on: 03:32:32 AM 12/01/13
I understand its supposed to be survival horror, but what is a few extra ap to you, Isn't it supposed to be the same for all races? Hard to survive?
Anyways enough of this. Slime wants us to stop arguing so that will happen.

I might have agreed that the AP wasn't as important until the cost to stand changed. 

The few extra AP are pretty important now.  Especially for zombies, who are currently spending 1/5 of their AP just to stand up.  And they have to spend even more if the player actively chooses to stand as a zombie instead of human.  Yes it should be hard to survive, but leaving zombies at such an obvious AP disadvantage isn't really "surviving" as much as it is giving an edge to the other races.
« Last Edit: 03:34:56 AM 12/01/13 by Atheist »



Mary

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on: 03:35:56 AM 12/01/13
but what is a few extra ap to you, Isn't it supposed to be the same for all races?

AP isn't equal between races. Why should AP costs?
» You throw a tantrum, but all you seem to accomplish is slight disarray.



Atheist

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on: 03:42:11 AM 12/01/13
No, it insinuates embellishment. You're obviously not a terrorist you twit, and on the infinitesimally small chance you are there's not much I can do about it.

And that makes me someone who's just responding to each one of your replies, hoping you can calm down a little.

Name-calling = "hoping you can calm down a little"

Sure thing bud.  Sure thing.



Zman090

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on: 03:44:40 AM 12/01/13
Ok now done can we please stop alright thanks.
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Týr

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on: 03:46:32 AM 12/01/13
I'm gonna go ahead and refute Atheist's points. Discussions and debates are healthy for the soul. I just hope he doesn't resort to calling me names and using strings of expletives again.

Yes.  Because humans have insane advantages, whether people want to recognize them or not. (Mostly not so they can continue bitching about how weak humans are, when in fact they're the most powerful and diverse species in the game.)
Every race has "insane advantages". They also all have disadvantages. Some more than others.

Humans are glass cannons. They do a lot of damage1 but have the lowest health and survivability. Their high damage1 comes at a cost of requiring resources and they make up for their lack of health by being able to put a literal wall between them and their enemies.

Zombies are tanks. They do a medium amount of damage ridiculously accurately, and can cause damage indirectly, and have the highest health. To balance this out, they have the least amount of action points, and to make up for their low amount of action points they can hide anywhere and trick players into passing over them and thereby have the highest survivability. ... And to make up, yet again, for their low amount of action points, they can, as stated, cause damage indirectly.

Vampires are... somewhere in the middle I guess. They deal a medium amount of damage somewhat accurately and can tank pretty well by constantly healing. They have skills that improve their survivability, being able to actually shrug off damage. They have skills that improve their strength by being able to work their way up to dealing 20 damage consistently. They have to spend the least amount of effort finding targets. To top it off, they can also hide--they aren't the best hiders, but they can hide.


Please point out some "insane advantages" that humans get to hold over undead heads that don't get checked by an undead counter or clear disadvantage.


1. Humans are supposed to do the most damage2, but recent damage-increasing skills for all three races have trumped this and thrown humans off course.
2. I don't actually know if this is the case. I can only assume so due to the evidence presented in the broken combat triangle this game offers.


That's just part of the game, dude.  Its a survival horror game, not a shack up in a hole and hide game.    You're going to have to continually keep an eye on things and re-barricade and maintain your shelter if you want to survive the monsters roaming the streets.  Some shelters its going to be harder to maintain, but the benefits of doing so are greater.  Such as the power plant.  Or the fort, where you have easy access to most of the things humans need to survive in one 9 square area with only one way in or out.  Sure that forces/lets the enemy concentrate their efforts on one spot, but they could just as easily do that at the power plant.
Multi-tile buildings are impossible to hold. That's the point. It's not that they're difficult to hold or maintain, it's that they're impossible to hold or maintain--as in, it cannot be done.


I might have agreed that the AP wasn't as important until the cost to stand changed. 

The few extra AP are pretty important now.  Especially for zombies, who are currently spending 1/5 of their AP just stand up.  And they have to spend even more if the player actively chooses to stand as a zombie instead of human.  Yes it should be hard to survive, but leaving zombies at such an obvious AP disadvantage isn't really "surviving" as much as it is giving an edge to the other races.
I'm a zombie right now. I'm having the time of my life. I don't have to worry about anything.

HP? It comes, albeit slowly, but it does. I can supplement with some easy-to-find items if I wanted to.
AP? I got revived and chose to be zombie so I could relax. I got up and promptly face-planted in the same place to let my AP recharge and went off to do some IRL stuff. I can face-plant anywhere and the chance of someone finding me is practically nil because I know how to be a good zombie.
Kills? I've actually gotten the most kills as a zombie in a streak than I ever have as a human or a vampire. Being able to hide literally anywhere makes it easy to stalk people or wait for the perfect moment to come out and snatch up a straggler.

Being a zombie is easy. Being a vampire is easy. Being a human is not easy.
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Atheist

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on: 04:06:03 AM 12/01/13
Please point out some "insane advantages" that humans get to hold over undead heads that don't get checked by an undead counter or clear disadvantage.

Group healing, wider variety of available healing items, healing items don't have a "chance" of working like feeding on corpses does, easier time finding healing items, being able to fortify a position, causing others to have to spend AP to get to them before they can attack them.  (Yes they have to spend AP to build, but they also get to recharge said AP while waiting for whatever is tearing at the barricades.  And they can keep working on the barricades WHILE they're being taken down if they want to.) 

Aside from that, there's also more frivolous little fun things that humans can do to.  Like messing with the TV station or leaving messages (sometimes rather rude and negative messages about other players even) everywhere in the game.


Multi-tile buildings are impossible to hold. That's the point. It's not that they're difficult to hold or maintain, it's that they're impossible to hold or maintain--as in, it cannot be done.

This statement is purely your opinion and not a fact.  Why you think it refutes anything I've said is beyond me.

I got revived and chose to be zombie so I could relax. I got up and promptly face-planted in the same place to let my AP recharge and went off to do some IRL stuff.

How does this mean anything to anyone else?  Just because you chose to stand then immediately face-plant (because you had IRL stuff) does not mean the next person to come along has IRL stuff to attend to.  They could have just sat down to play, and immediately they're at 40 AP or 35 AP if they have the choice to stand.  That's likely to be burned through pretty quickly if you want to do anything at all.

I can face-plant anywhere and the chance of someone finding me is practically nil because I know how to be a good zombie.

Okay.  But how does your bragging about how good you are mean anything to the game?  The chance of someone finding you is just as great as anyone else playing a zombie laying in the open.  How is this game-relevant again?

Kills? I've actually gotten the most kills as a zombie in a streak than I ever have as a human or a vampire. Being able to hide literally anywhere makes it easy to stalk people or wait for the perfect moment to come out and snatch up a straggler.

That's nice.  Not everyone has the time to sit here refreshing repeatedly to see if someone has landed on the tile we're hiding on so they can sneak attack them.

Being a zombie is easy. Being a vampire is easy. Being a human is not easy.

Pure opinion, not fact.  How does this refute anything?



Mary

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on: 04:16:52 AM 12/01/13
Being a zombie is easy. Being a vampire is easy. Being a human is not easy.
No, no, no. Especially not so for vampires recently.
And it really is statements like that that make me doubt your self-exclaimed neutral stance on race balance.
» You throw a tantrum, but all you seem to accomplish is slight disarray.



Kraufen

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on: 04:19:11 AM 12/01/13
No, no, no. Especially not so for vampires recently.
And it really is statements like that that make me doubt your self-exclaimed neutral stance on race balance.
My vampire alt hasn't died in three days, and only died because I left him out in the open



Mary

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on: 04:30:09 AM 12/01/13
And? I have a human alt that hasn't died in a week. Yet my zombie character has died 3 times tonight while hiding.

Anecdotal evidence isn't useful.
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Kraufen

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on: 04:42:39 AM 12/01/13
I've killed you when you are hiding.
For one you are hiding rather close to places where we would look and close to the fort.
Its not that zombies suck or something, its because you need to pick better places to hide.



Týr

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on: 04:47:54 AM 12/01/13
[spoiler=Responses to Atheist]
Group healing,
Required for survival due to the fact that humans have to actively search for healing supplies and cannot heal by attacking like undead can.
wider variety of available healing items,
Wider variety, but most heal very small amounts that aren't usually worth the AP to find and consume them.
healing items don't have a "chance" of working like feeding on corpses does
Required for survival. Humans cannot heal as they attack like undead can, and therefore cannot heal during combat like undead can. This means humans can only realistically heal in between engagements and must also actively search for healing items.
easier time finding healing items
Subjective. Undead don't have to find healing items because they can heal by attacking.
being able to fortify a position, causing others to have to spend AP to get to them before they can attack them.
Required for survival. Human hiding spots are the most obvious hiding spots and humans are forced into certain buildings for supplies. Being able to fortify those buildings is necessary. Undead are not reliant on the map like humans are.
Aside from that, there's also more frivolous little fun things that humans can do to.  Like messing with the TV station or leaving messages (sometimes rather rude and negative messages about other players even) everywhere in the game.
These aren't advantages, these are perks.
This statement is purely your opinion and not a fact.  Why you think it refutes anything I've said is beyond me.
It's a fact alright. You will soon discover that should you ever try to hold a multi-tile building yourself.
How does this mean anything to anyone else?  Just because you chose to stand then immediately face-plant (because you had IRL stuff) does not mean the next person to come along has IRL stuff to attend to.  They could have just sat down to play, and immediately they're at 40 AP or 35 AP if they have the choice to stand.  That's likely to be burned through pretty quickly if you want to do anything at all.
This is a game where you're meant to play as what you are converted into. If you want to pick and choose, then take the hit. Or don't, and play the cards you've been dealt.
Okay.  But how does your bragging about how good you are mean anything to the game?  The chance of someone finding you is just as great as anyone else playing a zombie laying in the open. How is this game-relevant again?
False. Believe it or not, there's actually a point where skill and experience comes into play in the game.
That's nice.  Not everyone has the time to sit here refreshing repeatedly to see if someone has landed on the tile we're hiding on so they can sneak attack them.
That's only one situation where a sneak attack can be applied. There are more.
Pure opinion, not fact.  How does this refute anything?
I didn't claim it was meant to.[/spoiler]


No, no, no. Especially not so for vampires recently.
And it really is statements like that that make me doubt your self-exclaimed neutral stance on race balance.
Believe it or not, I play all the races about equally. It is by far the least easiest and the most stressful to survive as a human. Zombie and vampires have a far more easier time staying alive.

The amount of things you have to worry about to survive as a human greatly outnumber the amount of things you have to worry about to survive as undead. In fact, I don't think undead really have anything they have to worry about to survive. Vampires need to have the lights off to hide, but that is about it. Am I forgetting some things?

A zombie can run off into one of the un-populated neighbourhoods and drop dead in a random street and I can guarantee you they will survive for days if not weeks.
A vampire can run off and hide in any of the buildings and survive for at least a few days.
A human cannot. I have had human alts attempt to survive on their own in the other neighbourhoods and they have died overnight every time. Vampire skills means you can't leave the building unbarricaded, but barricading the building pretty much tells every passing zombie and vampire that you're inside. It's a lose-lose situation--and something undead don't have to ever worry about.

Also, Mary, I've gotten you killed a bunch recently because you considered it a good idea to hide right next to a bustling human territory that gets combed regularly for hiding zeds.
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