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Slimebeast's Projects => Hell Rising => Topic started by: Priest on 11:12:49 AM 10/27/15

Title: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 11:12:49 AM 10/27/15
I'm thinking that Revival Serum should be more difficult to obtain and possibly craft-able only after farming difficult crafting materials. This is the tenth year for the apocalypse and after 10 years of siege with no incoming supplies the city should start to run out of searchable serum.


Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 03:16:41 PM 10/27/15
Yes make human life even harder by making us use even more more ap that is already needed to fully cade repair a building that undead have attacked which takes them max sometimes 30 ap to destroy. No.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 03:27:23 PM 10/27/15
Yes make human life even harder by making us use even more more ap that is already needed to fully cade repair a building that undead have attacked which takes them max sometimes 30 ap to destroy. No.

That's why humans have the most AP, amazing weapons with high damage and great accuracy as well as the ability to build barricades in the first place. Single humans should not be able to survive very easily in a post apocalyptic world. Prove me wrong because all evidence points to you being wrong.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 03:39:36 PM 10/27/15
That's why humans have the most AP, amazing weapons with high damage and great accuracy as well as the ability to build barricades in the first place. Single humans should not be able to survive very easily in a post apocalyptic world. Prove me wrong because all evidence points to you being wrong.
Aye but vampires at full bloodthirst can do 30 damage per attack. Vampires and zombies can even use most of our "amazing" weapons that we have to use ap to find. We need to reload any weapons costing ap which undead have no need for and we only have 10 more ap to find ans do these things. Its not a huge advantage or anything.

And your right single humans already dont survive very long anyways. If they dont know anything about revival points they chance on not getting revived for days.

We have the ability to build barricades because if we didnt what would keep undead out? I dont really understabd how that somehow makes humans so much better. Why would the undead even need barricades.

Tldr the whole point of being undead is they have skills with their claws fangs and whatnot. They have higher or the same accuracy with both as our so called amazing weapons.

Plus vile serum is fucking hard to get, if you make it impossible to play human there is no point in even trying.
If this happens tou better double humans ap otherwise no balance whatsoever. And also remove the undeads ability to stand as preffered race.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 04:01:03 PM 10/27/15
TLDR; You're bullshitting and you haven't proven anything substantial aside from you want humans to have it easy

Your vampire example needs work.

Alright, I'm a low to mid level vampire. I have a base 40% to hit with fangs and I can do 6 damage per bite.

I just bite, hit and latched on.

-You bite a Mantis Security Grunt with your Fangs for 7 damage to the head and you latch on.

(still says 40% to hit, not sure where that extra point of damage came from)

was going to test more but Roly stopped by and helped the npc dismember me.

So how do you see a vamp gaining a 30 damage a bite, what does a vamp have to do to get that? What are the conditions that make that happen, how much xp does it take to get to there?

To be fair, what does it take a human to do 30 damage? (don't say it's not possible, I've been killed enough to know it is.)

Revivals happens in multiple ways;
-You can wait to be revived either by a random helpful person or at a revive point.
-You can ask for a revive over the default public walkie channel.
-You can hunt down a free revive yourself from a Lazarix NPC.

Saying that removal of searchable serum would make the race unplayable is absolute bullshit and you know it.

Not only do you have the ability to build barricades to keep undead out, you can build traps and 5 different types of fencing, two of which do damage to the attacker and are an absolute bitch to tear down. As for a barricade being torn down in 30 AP, I would love to see that. I've been working on barricades for two full AP cycles and it still wasn't taken down (and no one was rebuilding it). You saying it can be taken down in 30ap is equivalent to me saying I can kill the Warcophagus in 2 hits (my caveat; it has to be damaged before hand, Your caveat; every hit has to be a weakening)

I stand by the suggestion for the removal of searchable revival serum. It makes sense. Your argument for the status quo is flawed and lacks information.

(I reserve the right to change my opinion if new information is presented)
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Roly on 04:19:30 PM 10/27/15
Quote
So how do you see a vamp gaining a 30 damage a bite, what does a vamp have to do to get that? What are the conditions that make that happen, how much xp does it take to get to there?

It use to be that the more folks you killed the higher your blood lust went and it would stay until you were killed. However, I do not remember getting it to 30 per attack.
 
I have not had it over 4 since returning and it seems to ware off after some amount of time.

If the zeds would gang up you could easily destroy most of the humans (fort rat types)

Quote
was going to test more but Roly stopped by and helped the npc dismember me

U only had 7 hp that Mantis guy was going to kick your ass anyway..  :grave:
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Mammon on 04:20:43 PM 10/27/15
It resets if you hide.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Roly on 04:24:41 PM 10/27/15
It resets if you hide.

Well, turn that off please.  :halloween:
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: WakaWa on 04:25:35 PM 10/27/15
Revival serum is already craft-able, from vile serum + bloodbag.

Blood bags are harder than revival serum to find most of the time.
Vile serum is a drop from a few different NPCs in Sub-level Z.

If you make it so Revival Serum is craft-able only and cannot be found anymore. I guarantee you, you will start to rarely see humans because it will take so much effort to get the serum. Alot of people don't even like waiting a day to be revived, make those people wait too long and they'll just get bored of the game. Also, I'm guessing not many people want to dedicate themselves to finding these items just to revive others.

Plus, only humans can craft. What would happen if the human population either got to 0 or the only people left have no interest in reviving other? It will just either inspire people to zerg to get the items or create a new alt every time(or both). Which starts at level 1 to kill those NPCs, get the bloodbags and get that skill. Won't exactly be fun either. At the same time avoiding death.

Even considering the revival NPCs. Which can be hard to stumble upon.

This will murder the human race.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Cameron medi on 04:36:03 PM 10/27/15
It used to be that the more folks you killed the higher your blood lust went and it would stay until you were killed. However, I do not remember getting it to 30 per attack.
 
I have not had it over 4 since returning and it seems to ware off after some amount of time.

If the zeds would gang up you could easily destroy most of the humans (fort rat types)

U only had 7 hp that Mantis guy was going to kick your ass anyway..  :grave:

Beta got it up to 9 woth  bite
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 04:37:30 PM 10/27/15
Quote
If you make it so Revival Serum is craft-able only and cannot be found anymore. I guarantee you, you will start to rarely see humans because it will take so much effort to get the serum. Alot of people don't even like waiting a day to be revived, make those people wait too long and they'll just get bored of the game. Also, I'm guessing not many people want to dedicate themselves to finding these items just to revive others.

This is all assumption based in the fact that people feel humans are superior, they aren't the only ones who can craft, vampires can craft as well. In a post apoc setting, for humans to survive they should have to work together. There's a group bank that allows for the mass storage of items, like vile serum, revival serum and blood bags. Farming for the materials makes way more sense than death having next to no effect.

I do however see the point of human impatience, so I'll modify my suggestion of removing the revival serum searches and offer a reduced finding rate. This is year 10 after all and the humans are poised to extinct all undead. This is the exact same scenario that you want humans to avoid except I'm offering a solution.

If you don't like the solution, figure out a better one because the status quo isn't working.


Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Roly on 05:30:10 PM 10/27/15
This is all assumption based in the fact that people feel humans are superior, they aren't the only ones who can craft, vampires can craft as well. In a post apoc setting, for humans to survive they should have to work together. There's a group bank that allows for the mass storage of items, like vile serum, revival serum and blood bags. Farming for the materials makes way more sense than death having next to no effect.

I do however see the point of human impatience, so I'll modify my suggestion of removing the revival serum searches and offer a reduced finding rate. This is year 10 after all and the humans are poised to extinct all undead. This is the exact same scenario that you want humans to avoid except I'm offering a solution.

If you don't like the solution, figure out a better one because the status quo isn't working.
It is year 7 for me and for many folks IT IS year one. I don't like being human anyway, but I like killing them. So, give them all 10 free serum per day for all I care.. :zombie: :theend:
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 05:36:49 PM 10/27/15
It is year 7 for me and for many folks IT IS year one. I don't like being human anyway, but I like killing them. So, give them all 10 free serum per day for all I care.. :zombie: :theend:

I like killing everyone and I want to make sure that my way of murder is sustainable. Elimination of a species (any species) is counter productive to the ecosystem. Humans are given quite a few abilities and tools to preserve their humanity, zombies don't need any help staying zombies, as soon as you die from any cause (except vampires) you become a zombie and Vampires need the boost at the moment.

My solution is to degrade one of the human survival factors (in this case limit serum availability) in hopes of a vampire resurgence.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 05:39:21 PM 10/27/15
First off calling it wanting it easy, vamps zeds literally have a skill that lets them stand as thei4 preffered race when revived. I beleive not long ago you were calling for a system in lazarix buildings letting humans just get revived there, now humans have easy mode?

Also there are human npcs. It could be easily explained wherethe stock is coming from. They be getting that shit drom somewhere to.

The group bank is available to any race

It is possible to do 30 dmaage as a vamp ive seen it not to long ago even. Its just very hard to pull off.


Its literally impossible to extinct the undead they have skills to stand after revival. They can be turned via npc.

Humans can do 30 damage but they need specific skills/weapons. Most regular blunt weapons dont do as much.




Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Roly on 05:44:09 PM 10/27/15
Quote
Its literally impossible to extinct the undead they have skills to stand after revival. They can be turned via npc.

Word 8)
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 05:47:56 PM 10/27/15
I called for a human revival method before learning about the Lazarix NPC and since them my focus has shifted to other solutions for balance.

Your mentioning of the group bank being available to all races has no bearing on anything, you're latching on to something as a hail mary pass.

If 30 Damage for a vamp is very hard to pull off, don't try using it as an excuse for human salvation.

It's not impossible to extinct the vampires, and I can prove it.

Last vampire dies with infection, they stand as a zombie. End of vampire race.

With 18 vampires left at the start of this forum post (now 23) extinction is a very real possibility.

Jumping back to humans doing massive damage, they have access to firearms that do insane damage on the reg.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Roly on 05:56:46 PM 10/27/15
Vampire soldier NPC kills said Zed BAM a new vamp
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 06:01:35 PM 10/27/15
That doesn't prevent extinction, so instead of trying to (unsuccessfully) refute my theory. Come up with a better solution.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 06:58:15 PM 10/27/15
Doesn't prevent extinction right? So like they totally aren't a vampire after being turned into one by a npc right? How does that not prevent extinction?

Also at one point before you came back humans were just as low as vampires now. They pulled through.

But yeah heres the thing last vampires dies from zombie killing them, vampires makes himself get killed by vampire npc, he is a vampire again. I don't really understand how this doesn't refute it as there is always a way to become a vampire again with this, its the same as being vamped by a human player but its by an npc.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 06:59:47 PM 10/27/15
I'll concede the point of always being a way to become vampire if you'll concede that it's just as easy to turn back into a human.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 07:05:55 PM 10/27/15
I'll concede the point of always being a way to become vampire if you'll concede that it's just as easy to turn back into a human.
Sure its just as easy to get a revive from a human player, however difference is some human out there gotta spend 10 (if there is lights, if no lights sometimes 20 or 30, and if really unlucky all your damn ap) just to find the serum already. and now you want to make it craftable making humans have to search for double the items? No thanks. This is the same problem that the rooftop run thing caused and was reverted.
So its not really just as easy.

Getting killed by an npc however is not overly ap intensive, you can do it in 2 or 3 ap. They are easily found if you go to the fort voila strong vamp npc's that will easily kill you the same as any other vampire player would
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 07:14:33 PM 10/27/15
As a test, I'm going to see how long it takes me to revive as a human on my own. (sidethought: The game has three races, if a person can't jump between them and refuses to play if they aren't a specific race then fuck them) The serum quantity needs a nerfing.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 07:20:04 PM 10/27/15
As a test, I'm going to see how long it takes me to revive as a human on my own. (sidethought: The game has three races, if a person can't jump between them and refuses to play if they aren't a specific race then fuck them) The serum quantity needs a nerfing.
Like I said I don't think it does. And of course people want to play one race more than others at the start. Its makes them more effective as one race, until of course theyve maxed out their skills.
Also humans were dying out at one point but one can start a revivalist so imho not to hard but once one is out of serum is where the problem of finding it starts. Like I said with lights out it can pose a problem
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 07:23:19 PM 10/27/15
Waka already made a valid case for the serum (impatience) and I already conceded that removing it from being searchable would be detrimental. However, a nerfing was as far as I will budge on this without further proof.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 07:28:14 PM 10/27/15
Turn the breaks off in a laz and start searchin :bleed:


Counting standing from the dead costing 10 ap it took 30 ap, without death 20
Keep in mind 1 serum revives only people who you must spend ap to kill as well


• You flip the breakers off.
• You find a Lazarix Access Tag.
• You find a Lab Coat.
• You find nothing of interest.
• You find an Injector but have no more room.
• You find nothing of interest.
• You find a Lab Coat.
• You find nothing of interest.
• You find an Injector but have no more room.
• You find nothing of interest. (5 times)
• You find a Lazarix Access Tag but have no more room.
• You find a Lab Coat.
• You find a Lazarix Access Tag but have no more room.
• You find nothing of interest.
• You find some Revival Serum but have no more room.

T
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 08:08:45 PM 10/27/15
First of all, why would you turn the breakers off if you want to find something? That seems counter productive.

I'll use your data anyways, 30 AP to find 4 serum and two injectors (each of which could have a serum preloaded) is overkill. Now extending your 30 AP to 70AP,  5 injectors (all possible loads) and 8 serum  (two successful finds) for a total of 8-13 possible revives.

This is searching in the dark mind you.

For a full 70AP spent, I would expect 3 injectors (all with a possible preload) and 4 serum (one successful find) that would give 4-7 possible revives for 70AP or 1:10
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Kraufen on 09:39:30 PM 10/27/15
First of all, why would you turn the breakers off if you want to find something? That seems counter productive.

I'll use your data anyways, 30 AP to find 4 serum and two injectors (each of which could have a serum preloaded) is overkill. Now extending your 30 AP to 70AP,  5 injectors (all possible loads) and 8 serum  (two successful finds) for a total of 8-13 possible revives.

This is searching in the dark mind you.

For a full 70AP spent, I would expect 3 injectors (all with a possible preload) and 4 serum (one successful find) that would give 4-7 possible revives for 70AP or 1:10

I turned off the lights to search in the dark, also for some reason I never find loaded injectors of one shot just emptys
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 09:54:30 PM 10/27/15
 :lookaround:

This might have had a solution already implemented. I'll get back with more details once I research it.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Mammon on 10:07:46 PM 10/27/15
I don't know what you think was done, but I didn't do anything.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 10:11:11 PM 10/27/15
I was opperating under the impression that a laz NPC will always revive you if they kill you with the questionable needle attack.

A Lazarix Researcher jabs you with their questionable needle for 9 damage to your neck. You die.
» You muster up all your strength and stand with a groan.

It didn't happen this time, I'm also not wearing my Lazarix ID card.

THIS OPENS MORE QUESTIONS!
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Mammon on 10:25:17 PM 10/27/15
No it doesn't, they've always randomly revived corpses, just like construction workers randomly repair and barricade.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 10:38:28 PM 10/27/15
So here's a thought, what do you think some possible solution options could be.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Mammon on 10:46:59 PM 10/27/15
Don't fix what isn't broke.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 11:18:32 PM 10/27/15
Alrighty
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Roly on 09:43:33 AM 10/28/15
Don't fix what isn't broke.

 :applaud:
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Lambda on 09:43:54 AM 10/28/15
This is madness why not just shutdown the game while you're at it
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Clipsus on 02:29:14 PM 10/28/15
This is madness why not just shutdown the game while you're at it
Madness? THIS IS SPARTA!!!
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 11:29:56 PM 10/28/15
48 humans, 48 zombies, 34 vampires

Guess the game just needed someone who was hyper active with a penchant for blood
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 01:44:14 AM 10/29/15
Update;

The human numbers are dwindling with a surge of vampires and zombies poised to take over.

38 humans, 44 zombies, 32 vampires

I wonder how we lost 16 people who are no race at all?
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Mammon on 12:03:08 PM 10/29/15
They just idled out. You also have to consider that about 30% of those people are alts.
Title: Re: 55 humans, 31 zombies, 18 vampires
Post by: Priest on 02:16:56 AM 11/04/15
106 humans, 70 zombies, 32 vampires


Just keeping track now.