Poll

Would you trade "playing undead" for expanded "human" features?

Yes
No
Not sure

Author Topic: Do you enjoy playing undead?  (Read 8217 times)

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Slimebeast

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on: 04:00:37 PM 01/02/14
Lately, I've been wondering how much players enjoy the ability to play undead as their main character choice. Zombies have long been the forgotten race in terms of using their abilities effectively, and while vampies hover between "they're underpowered" and "they're crazy overpowered", it seems like they're still the chosen "permanent" race of the few.

So here's the question...

Would you prefer to continue playing undead as your main choice, or would you give that up for expanded "human" game features?

There are several things that won't work in the game as it is now, that would be allowable if it wouldn't vastly unbalance the playable races...


For example, item-related concepts favor humans because undead naturally do not rely on items.
- Combining items to make new, demented things.
- Trading items between players.
- Earning in-game "cash" and using it for cool items/etc.
- More types of weapons in general. (While undead classically use teeth/hands.)
- Etc.


Post your thoughts.

This isn't something that's definitely going to happen - it's just a thought. Debate appropriately. :P


Edit: Also, BEING undead wouldn't go away, it'd just be more of a side-game. I wouldn't want to just DO that to people, though, without input.
« Last Edit: 04:11:38 PM 01/02/14 by Slimebeast »
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berz

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on: 06:02:20 PM 01/02/14
Just one guy's opinion, but I think even basic trade would be a great edition to add to the game and i know i'm not the only one who's wanted this. Combining items would be genius if you could manage it, not so sure about actual cash based economy for an apocalyptic game but maybe someone here can justify it with some genius suggestion.

Of all things I feel Hell Rising has a pretty diverse selection of weapons other than that i feel most of the special event weapons tend to favor blade skill over blunt and that all the blade weapons outside the special ones tend to be underwhelming in general. It feels like you either are fortunate to have a machete or you're stuck with a fire axe or boxcutter/butcher knife kind of deal. Just how i noticed things anways.

Zombies i feel have a really diverse playstyle and it's really well suited to casual players despite the initial difficulties starting as this class. Ever since NPC's are out gaining exp as one isn't even a big deal anymore.

Vampires kill really well but they're a bit boring to play as.

Humans...well, they revive and heal and die mostly, but that's mostly because the community overall doesn't like to coordinate barricade/revive operations like they ought to be doing for this class as I feel they should. I see trade as a benefit to them the most naturally while for undead the most use it might get is giving a spare sledgehammer to a new member or a rare bloodbag to cure infection for a bloodlusting vamipre.
« Last Edit: 06:06:04 PM 01/02/14 by berz »



Slimebeast

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on: 06:05:33 PM 01/02/14
For the cash thing, I was thinking it could effectively be like the tickets you get at an arcade. Heh.

Not necessarily MONEY, but credits... without the "Credits" label that makes everything sound like a sci-fi dystopian wannabe game. "KILLIN ZOMBIES FOR CREDS, SOLDIER" etc.
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berz

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on: 06:08:03 PM 01/02/14
Edited some stuff into my post towards the end because i didn't think i addressed the actual point regarding undead classes at all.

So cash would be like Fallout's bottlecaps i guess. I still stick that in a survival oriented world food and weapons are king.



Leonhrist

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on: 07:07:03 PM 01/02/14
I really enjoy playing as either form of undead, wouldn't want it to become side-lined. It honestly feels like one of the main features not just, you know, a nuisance.

Humans really bore me. Is there any reason undead shouldn't get some more options to work with to get rid of the monotony as opposed to getting turned into a side-game? I frequently think of the sort of vampire in games like Vampire: The Masquerade, that could use guns, melee weapons, cash, etc. I understand if either undead are not made to use these for one or another balance reason (or because there's better options) but at least one or two options can't hurt, right?

I'm not saying that you should forget about your ideas for humans, just saying you should apply some of this stuff to undead, too.

Just throwing random things at the wall here, not really thinking anything will stick to it.



berz

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on: 07:28:22 PM 01/02/14
Quote
I frequently think of the sort of vampire in games like Vampire: The Masquerade, that could use guns, melee weapons, cash,

Slime mentioned once before the Vampires in game were based mostly on the 30 Days of night Kind, so when i realized this I just assume that they can't hold or manipulate most items well due to their huge badger claws.



Leonhrist

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on: 07:39:52 PM 01/02/14
Slime mentioned once before the Vampires in game were based mostly on the 30 Days of night Kind, so when i realized this I just assume that they can't hold or manipulate most items well due to their huge badger claws.

Fair enough, but let's not side-line them over being disabled in such a manner  :hurr:

Joking aside, I'm sure there's more than can be done to give everyone more stuff to do. I've been entertaining the idea of more objectives to aim for (beneficial buildings to capture and the like) for every race and some skills built around those objectives. I'm sure someone's got something like that in the suggestions thread, but the idea of any of the races getting side-lined in favour of another made me panic.

Edit: I'm aware that the power plant and fort already offer some manner of objective play, but they feel a bit too shallow and it's really only beneficial for humans to hold onto.
« Last Edit: 07:42:22 PM 01/02/14 by Leonhrist »



Slimebeast

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on: 07:41:02 PM 01/02/14
One problem that keeps coming up over the years is that I don't want all three races to just become the same.

Sure, each has a hiding skill, but I tried to keep it different in some ways... and so on...

If each race used items and other such things in the same ways, I worry it'll THEN become too similar between races.


However, it might be a necessary evil.


Follow-up -- what would you guys think if all three races used melee weapons the same?
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berz

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on: 07:53:26 PM 01/02/14
Follow-up -- what would you guys think if all three races used melee weapons the same?

Definitely think that would further detract merits of being human at all. I find it pretty odd to begin with that an intellect zombie has only a 2% less accuracy than a fully functional human tbh, but it seems to work out decently anyways.

Have you ever considered dividing up the classes further amongst themselves like alot of RPG's are? I mean, we all start with a class name and one distinct skill upon start but those that stick around the game for a efw months tend to evolve into the same all around pan-killing machine guy. If you ever played Left4Dead at all then i think that's a good reference too, the infected were all rather distinct classes like one was agile type or another was good for pure damage. Then there's games like Final Fantasy with even further complex race/class mixing where you can have multiple jobs/subjobs that complement each other and such.

@Leonhrist you're not alone, a few people before suggested some territory control stuff, there should still be a thread on page 2 or so with some decent ideas.

Speaking of ideas, y'all bitches need to stop lurking and post ideas even if they're horrible and stupid. I know you're reading some of this!



Leonhrist

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on: 08:07:14 PM 01/02/14

Have you ever considered dividing up the classes further amongst themselves like alot of RPG's are? I mean, we all start with a class name and one distinct skill upon start but those that stick around the game for a efw months tend to evolve into the same all around pan-killing machine guy. If you ever played Left4Dead at all then i think that's a good reference too, the infected were all rather distinct classes like one was agile type or another was good for pure damage. Then there's games like Final Fantasy with even further complex race/class mixing where you can have multiple jobs/subjobs that complement each other and such.

This here, definitely this. If homogenization is a problem you want to avoid, then making sure everyone doesn't end up being the exact same is definitely a step to take. Some more permanent benefits to whatever you chose to start as would add to diversity, because frankly, as it is right now any benefit is really ephemeral, as you're likely to die and become something else within the hour. Some manner of role-picking as you gain levels would go a long way, too, to adding some more specialization.

I wonder if this is in the suggestions thread as well.


Follow-up -- what would you guys think if all three races used melee weapons the same?

Whoa no. One of my big gripes with big zombie games (Looking at you, Resident Evil 4 and on) is that zombies can somehow use tools and weapons just as well as a human can (Resident Evil even goes as a far as guns in this case, really silly). Even with intelligent zombies, I don't think they ought to have the necessary control over their rotten carcasses to equal someone who's actually alive.

Vampires melee too hard already. (Edit: That considered, perhaps they should at least have the option? Just don't let them benefit from Bloodthirst when using melee weaponry. Not an advantage, just an option, I think)
« Last Edit: 08:15:25 PM 01/02/14 by Leonhrist »



berz

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on: 08:15:22 PM 01/02/14
Quote
Whoa no. One of my big gripes with big zombie games (Looking at you, Resident Evil 4 and on) is that zombies can somehow use tools and weapons just as well as a human can.
Vampires melee too hard already.

completely off topic but those villagers were freshly infected by parasites and weren't actually rotting inside like traditional zombies. Other than their parasite giving them a few quirks like aggression and maybe chestbursting in advanced cases the infected retained their intellect.



Leonhrist

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on: 08:17:33 PM 01/02/14
completely off topic but those villagers were freshly infected by parasites and weren't actually rotting inside like traditional zombies. Other than their parasite giving them a few quirks like aggression and maybe chestbursting in advanced cases the infected retained their intellect.

True. But it makes me not want to call them zombies. Viral mutants? It still kinda turns them into something they shouldn't be.

I like the way L4D did it, mindless zombies that didn't use human weaponry but still retained their own unique set of abilities
« Last Edit: 08:19:43 PM 01/02/14 by Leonhrist »



Týr

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on: 09:08:16 PM 01/02/14
If you were to push the undead part of the game to the sidelines and make human the main gig it would certainly make focusing on fun much easier as you wouldn't have to worry about balance as much. It would also completely change (I think) how this game is played and how it's seen, which wouldn't necessary be a bad thing at this point.

Personally, I think following along with what Berz and Leon were saying would be the better option, albeit the more difficult one: that is to say, creating more depth with classes and abilities instead of everyone becoming the same zomconglomeration of a beast in the end.

Changing the game to be more human oriented would be an interesting idea, but it would remove a lot of the uniqueness this game has as well--maybe, anyway. There is always the chance you have some hidden genius as far as ideas to spice up the game goes.

It's a toss-up for me. I'm all for change in the end regardless.
« Last Edit: 11:02:17 PM 01/02/14 by Týr »
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Slimebeast

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on: 09:11:10 PM 01/02/14
I guess there's always the option of spawning a different version on another site, too.
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Leonhrist

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on: 09:25:05 PM 01/02/14
I guess there's always the option of spawning a different version on another site, too.

What, like a beta-testing sort of deal? Sounds interesting.